The Gary Brooker interview

John Collinge in Progression, Spring 1996

Progression
Procol Harum was one of the first rock bands of the late 1960s to incorporate classical influences in its arrangements, along with the Nice and Moody Blues, your contemporaries from that era. What was it about the musical atmosphere in those days that lent itself to such experimentation?

Brooker
Well, it was a bit freer – a lot freer, in fact. Pop music had been going along the same lines for quite a long time I think, by the time Procol started in 1967. It had been your Bee Gees, Beatles-pop songs, really. From '67 onwards people were given a lot more freedom by the record companies. It just depended on the bands or the writers what kinds of things got put into songs.

The idea of Procol Harum from the start was to have a line-up with two keyboardists, where we could do a lot more powerful type of chords – for those days, anyway. There was no such thing as synthesisers at that point yet. We had five instruments. three of them being lead instruments if necessary.

Progression
You had classical training, correct?

Brooker
I went through the piano classes and everything, yeah. Then I discovered rock'n'roll. I heard Greet Balls of Fire one day, and it was all over.

Progression
As you suggest, back then the record companies were less restrictive in how you were controlled, what kind of sound you might come out with ...

Brooker
Very unrestricted, yes. That was the joy of it. Of course there was some rubbish done, I suspect. There also were a lot of good things come out of it. With the atmosphere today, you'd never get that kind of variety and experimentation. Everybody sounds the same, don't they? Especially the young bands.

Progression
That's a frustration shared by a lot of folks whose bands started in the late '60s and early '70s. I've heard the same thing from Greg Lake and Ian Anderson, etc. But let's move on the new album, the orchestral adaptation of Procol classics.

Brooker
I sort of looked after it. BMG Classics asked me if I'd help them do the symphonic music of Procol Harum. It's not a Procol Harum album, it mainly features the London Symphony Orchestra. We did brand-new orchestrations for about a dozen songs. It was originally meant to be a classical record, but they ended up wanting a bit of crossover in it, I think. So two or three songs have drums and guitar on it as well.

Progression
And you sing on it.

Brooker
I sing on it, Tom Jones sings, James Galway plays flute and we've got a classical singer doing Grand Hotel. Quite a mixture. There's been a series that BMG Classics has done, the most recent one being The Symphonic Music of The Rolling Stones.

The idea of it is that people originally involved in the particular band get involved in this as well. I mean, there have been previous versions of Procol songs by the London Symphony Orchestra, but they lost it a bit and this is properly done – hopefully.

Progression
With your exceptional voice, why would they bring in someone like Tom Jones for this project?

Brooker
Because Tom Jones is about 100 times better than I am.

Progression
Whose idea was that?

Brooker
My idea; Tom was walking past the studio and I said, 'Tom – come in and check this out.' He came in and said, 'That's big, eh?' I said 'Would you like to sing one on here?' And he said he'd love to.

So I gave him about five songs with my guide vocals on them. He took them away that night and came back the next day. He hadn't had much time, I think. He couldn't do the more complicated ones which he really didn't know. So we went for the kind of easy ones. Simple Sister by Tom Jones is somewhat of a landmark in my calendar.

The thing is that Tom Jones has a lot of street credibility in Britain. Here, I think he's still regarded as some sort of Las Vegas crooner. But he is rock 'n' roll. He's a fantastic singer and a good guy.

Progression
He's not going to steal Simple Sister, for his own set. is he? Or don't you mind?

Brooker
I don't think he'd be able to do Simple Sister – that would be a bit too bizarre.

Progression
Do you plan to remain active as a recording band and a touring band? Because over the years, you've had fits and starts.

Brooker
Well yeah. It's all to do with the economics of it and the demand. We haven't promoted the orchestral record as such, because we haven't travelled around with an orchestra or anything. We don't try to copy those arrangements in concert. It's a separate item. So it rather depends – unless you've got a product out, it's difficult to tour. But we seem to have managed to do that.

When we came out with Jethro Tull [1993], we didn't have product out either – that was two years after Prodigal Stranger was released.

Progression
But to answer my question, do you plan to carry on recording? Do you plan to record another album anytime soon?

Brooker
Well, we don't have a deal.

Progression
So the deal comes first and then the album?

Brooker
It's a real trial and a very expensive operation to put a lot of effort into writing songs and recording them unless you've got an outlet for it. We wouldn't do that. I mean, we do write new songs from time to time and we do play them on stage from time to time, so we get that enjoyment out of it.

It's a bizarre world. We can go out on tour and have successful concerts. Lots of people come and they all cheer and they love it. Actually, there's a lot of re-education going on. A lot of people coming now haven't seen Procol Harum before. They've heard about us, or perhaps they saw us [with Jethro Tull] in '93. But it's very much a new crowd: a lot of youngsters. Yet they really can't go out and buy anything, unless they buy old stuff. So it's bizarre not to have a new record out.

Progression
The band had a 15-year gap between Something Magic and Prodigal Stranger. You had three solo albums in that span. Why the big gap with Procol? What was it that made you decide after 15 years to get back with Robin Trower and Matthew Fisher to do another album?

Brooker
Well, it wasn't like that, I'm sorry to say. That wasn't the way it happened. Everybody was busy doing different things and I was very busy doing other things, writing and playing with different bands. I think what brought it about was I was just to the point where I had to decide what I was going to do – whether I was going to make another solo album or not. And a lot of things happened to make me realize that in a lot of people's minds, Procol is still alive and well. I thought that we'd let people down a bit in not having made something in so long.

Also, our drummer at that time [BJ Wilson] was in a coma. There was a hope he might come out of it if he knew what was going on. I spoke to Keith Reid, who writes the words, about doing a new Procol Harum album. We wrote songs and Matthew got involved and it just sort of grew, organically. We sent the tapes with a drum machine on it to the drummer. They put headphones on his head but it didn't wake him up.

Progression
Were you pleased with the way Prodigal Stranger was received!

Brooker
Oh yeah. It was great, actually. I mean, it's very easy for the critics to pick holes in something especially if you've had a long break. I half expected to see a kind of 'why did they bother' sort of approach. 'Should've stayed at home.' 'Dinosaur rock.' 'Wrinkle rock.' Anything. But quite the contrary. We were very conscientious about it. We didn't rehash the Procol thing, we just wrote the songs and they happened to come out sounding like a Procol Harum album. It got very favourable reviews.

Progression
The first track on that album I just love – The Truth Won't Fade Away.

Brooker
One thing that went wrong with that album is that we put trust in the record company even after a big argument. Procol has a lot of friends out there including some in the media, guys who did their first interviews with us much like you're doing now, and now they own newspaper chains. We have a lot of friends out there definitely willing to give Procol a bit of radio play. And Zoo, our record company, chose All Our Dreams Are Sold, which out of all the tracks on the album is probably the most retrogressive.

Robin Trower wrote that song with me, but Rob wasn't in the band. They knew this, but they still chose to put it out even though we argued with them over it for three weeks. In the end they said they did the surveys and this was the one they were going with for the single. We wanted The Truth Won't Fade Away.

Progression
The Truth Won't Fade Away really comes across as a killer tune live; I remember seeing you open up for Tull ...

Brooker
They closed for us, actually.

Progression
So how was it touring with Tull?

Brooker
That was excellent.

Progression
Was that because of the Pegg connection – Dave playing bass with Tull and his son, Matthew, playing bass for you!

Brooker
I've known Ian Anderson for a long time. We were in contact for a long time with his agent, who used to be Procol's agent. So there are a lot of connections there and I see Ian from time to time. I mean, it's a good idea these days for a couple bands to go around like that – it's more of an attraction. You just hope that you're with the right band. The Jethro Tull crowd – it was a Procol crowd as well – are quite complementary.

If you're only there to see Jethro, you're also going to like Procol.

Progression
You both played the Isle of Wight festival in 1970. Do you remember anything about that?

Brooker
All I remember is we were down at the other end of the island, where we were part of the Chrysalis stable. There was us and Ten Years After and Jethro Tull. We're in a big mansion down at the other end of the island sort of hanging out. The limos pick you up, rush you through the crowds and the traffic and you play. We hung around and watched Jimi Hendrix and a couple of other people, and that's about all I remember.

Progression
Would you say the band's sound has changed significantly since then?

Brooker
No. Don't think so. At the moment, we play a repertoire that includes the whole gamut of stuff. We aren't just playing a new album or something, although we went through periods when that's the way it was. In 1976–77 for example, we'd be concentrating on a certain area, usually a new album with a few favourites chucked in. Now, we do a pretty wide-ranging repertoire.

Progression
Do you plan to be working with Robin Trower any time in the near future7

Brooker
No, I don't believe so. He came along and played a solo for me on the Symphonic album, which is great. It was nice to see him. But he's off with Bryan Ferry now.

Progression
Do you have any reservations about the prospect of perhaps being pigeonholed as a nostalgia act?

Brooker
I give the American public a lot more credit than that. They know what they like. Sure, they like to hear A Salty Dog. Fine – nothing wrong with that. But I don't feel they're on some nostalgic trip or anything. I think they see things as they are today. They like seeing bands play over here. That's the great thing. I don't think it's nostalgia as such, no.

Progression
Have you noticed a resurgence of the progressive rock / art-rock genre, the sort of scene you came up in?

Brooker
A resurgence with new people?

Progression
Yes.

Brooker
I think there is, but I don't listen to it. You've got to sit through so much, especially with the radio in Britain. So you just keep your ear to the ground to see if anybody pops up with an album. I mean, you've got to have a vocalist in a band, and a lot of them get let down there.

Progression
Because not many can sing that well?

Brooker
They act a bit as well – they sing with silly voices. There are some really good bands around, it's the guy in front that often lets it all down.

Progression
Back in the late 1960s and early '70s, as we talked about earlier, there was more of an emphasis on experimentation. I think it's starting to poke through the surface again here now – sort of coming full circle.

Brooker
Well, some bands will always do that but they often get shot down. Especially these days, they'll get shot down by record companies and media. 'Hey, we can't do that because it doesn't fit into this.' Where are they going to get radio exposure? Everything is divided into niches, it seems –hard rock, heavy metal, classic rock, adult-oriented or whatever it's called. All these little niches, and if an experimental band came up, no one would be quite sure where they'd fit.

Progression
Moving on, Dave Pegg tells me you've got a farm and you grow your own produce. Is that right?

Brooker
Is that what he said? Dave Pegg? What's he know? Part of the feeling in the late '60s and '70s –hippie time and the 'green time' meeting of the tribes, etc.– was that we wasted a lot of stuff, we ate a lot of crap, wasted a lot of energy. There was a great movement of course, then, toward putting that to rights, which I still stick by. One thing is growing your own vegetables, a bit of self-sufficiency.

The whole movement sort of fell by the wayside and it's all gotten back to money since then.

Progression
I suppose you miss that going out on the road.

Brooker
I haven't eaten my vegetables since I left home! We've got raw cauliflower and raw broccoli in the dressing room always, and carrots – you know, with the dip. You never see vegetables, really.

Progression
All you primarily vegetarian?

Brooker
I don't eat very much meat at all, unless I've killed it, usually.

Progression
Oh – you do that too?

Brooker
Huntin', shootin' and fishin'? Yeah.

Progression
We talked a little about the band's future. Do you have any projects you're working on, another studio album perhaps within the next couple of years?

Brooker
We will do something. We're off to explore some new lands for Procol in South America, and we're also playing with the London Symphony Orchestra [in February, '96]. We are doing some writing.

Progression
My final question is this: I'd read that Procol Harum got its name from somebody's cat. Is that right?

Brooker
Yes sir.

Progression
And whose cat was it?

Brooker
I don't know his name. I can't remember. It's a friend of Guy Stevens, a guy I used to score dope off ... Sandy McGregor's brother, it was. Don't remember his first name. Guy was around there and phoned us up when we were rehearsing. He said, 'Found a name for the band – Procol Harum.' We said. 'Oh. yeah, alright. Sounds nothing. Sounds ambiguous and strange'. And so we adopted it straight away.

Progression
If nothing else, it's certainly distinctive.

Brooker
Hmm ... Yeah, it was a good name. Tumbled from the sky like that. We spelled it wrong, though. It was P-r-o-c-u-l H-a-r-l-u-n. When we eventually saw the cat's birth certificate, we realized we'd got it wrong. But we were number one by then and we couldn't change it. Lucky thing was that it was Latin and it actually meant 'beyond these things,' which was a happy coincidence.

Progression
OK, thanks a lot!

Brooker
My pleasure.

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