September 1997: The Procol Harum e-mail List

Procol Harum

Beyond
the Pale

The Procol Harum e-mail list archive

September 1997 (thanks, Bill Hammell)

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 14:13:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: kerryh@uconect.net cc: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: No Subject

Thanks Joan, I knew Gary was an Angler, but does he sail or persue some other nautical ambition? <<

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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:19:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: LeoBome@aol.com
To: greatsociety@worldnet.att.net, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Home and Other News

Yes, I ordered two of them. The couple named Dave and Louise, who were at the Toby Lakers asked me to see if I could get a Home CD for them. The price was right too! About 10 bucks each if you include postage. It is a CASTLE CLASSICS Made in England, licensed from CUBE RECORDS. Wonder if that is the reason it is not available in the UK? No lyrics included on the insert. Takes about two weeks.

I've been thinking how A CHRISTMAS CAMEL applys to Princess Diana. No disrespect intended. That is a sad story.

Later On, Leonard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: intro and question
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 97 15:25:47 -0400
From: Keith Kastorff <kastorff@ix.netcom.com
To: "Procol Harum Mailing List" <procol@progrock.org

Like many, I've been a Procol Harum fan since I first heard "Whiter Shade of Pale" as a kid. Then there was a bit of a lapse in interest until Home. Home and Broken Barricades were music staples. I kept up with the band up until Procol's 9th. Recently picked up Prodigal Stranger and kind of reinitialized my interest.

I've been searching for another copy of Mobile Fidelity's CD release of Broken Barricades. The only one I've ever seen I didn't buy (Argh!). Anyone have a lead?

-------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Kastorff kastorff@ix.netcom.com http://www.netcom.com/~kastorff/info.html --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:16:59 +0200
From: Frank Matheus <matheus@uni-muenster.de Reply-
To: matheus@uni-muenster.de
To: Procol Harum <procol@progrock.org
Subject: (Kein "Betreff")

<Pare there any Brits on this list, who know the way to Aldershot, where Gary will play on October 4th? I'm considering to attend the concert, but I have to get there by train or bus (I won't rent a car, because I don't drive on the left ...).

<PFrank</HTML ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:25:24 -0400
From: "Diane H. Wells" <greatsociety@worldnet.att.net Reply-
To: greatsociety@worldnet.att.net
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Paramounts, etc.

I just realized that www.cdnow.com is currently selling a re-issue of Paramounts material. The CD - called "Whiter Shades of R'N'B'" - originally came out 1983.

Just bought it - anything with the Coasters I'll buy - my older sister was pretty heavily into them when I was a kid.

P.S. Yes, Leonard - I FINALLY bought "Home" and all that Fairport Convention stuff! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bill@progrock.org (Bill Hammell)
To: <procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Paramounts, etc.
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:45:40 -0400

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Bill Hammell - bill@progrock.org /_/ _/ Mgr: Livgren/Elefante, Wakeman, Yes, Procol Harum Email Lists /_/ _/ Kerry Livgren: http://progrock.org/livgren/ /_/ _/ John Elefante: http://progrock.org/elefante/ /_/ _/ irc.progrock.org - channel #livgren Livgren IRC Chat /_/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

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From: Diane H. Wells <greatsociety@worldnet.att.net
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Paramounts, etc.
Date: Tuesday, September 02, 1997 8:25 PM Hi folks - I just realized that www.cdnow.com is currently selling a re-issue of Paramounts material. The CD - called "Whiter Shades of R'N'B'" - originally came out 1983. Just bought it - anything with the Coasters I'll buy - my older sister was pretty heavily into them when I was a kid. - Diane Wells P.S. Yes, Leonard - I FINALLY bought "Home" and all that Fairport Convention stuff! ==== For subscription commands http://po.internetrti.com/guest/RemoteListSummary/Procol

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:08:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: RBERG51@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Procol plays rock and roll standards/help ID

I got in a trade a show where Procol played rock and roll standards. The tape was labeled EMI Rehearsals. I have my doubts. I believe it was on a living legend boot a long time ago. Can anyone help id this session?

Neil ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:32:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: MF's Green Onions

I've been listening to the Fantastic version of Booker T's Green Onions performed by Matthew Fisher and guitarist Dick Taylor (of The Pretty Things) on Fisher's solo album "A Salty Dog Returns" (1994) I think this track is worth the price of the CD and THEN SOME!! Taylor's playing is reminiscent of Mike Bloomfield at his Hottest, and MF does the song Proud with his magic touch on that glorious sounding Hammond of his.. MF should play Blues more often!! For best results crank the volume up to at least ELEVEN and Enjoy!! You can get this CD from co-producer Mike Ober: Yardbirds1@aol.com

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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 05:31:43 -0400
From: "Diane H. Wells" <greatsociety@worldnet.att.net Reply-
To: greatsociety@worldnet.att.net
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Fairport & Redhill

Well, turns out that Fairport also had a 30th reunion concert this year - around the same time as Procol Harum. In fact, their reunion fell within a month of Redhill. My husband, Gary, is really into Fairport and wanted to go, but it would have meant staying in the UK for 3 WEEKS after we went to Redhill...a grand impossibility financially and time wise.

Anyways, Gary's in the process right now of replacing his old, scratched up Fairport records with new CD's...

- Diane Wells ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:14:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Echoes in the Night

I think Echoes in the Night was RUINED by all those SYNTHS!!! And also the cornball orchestration and, especially, that {{Cringeworthy}} Chorus on The Long Goodbye.. "Soooooo Stroooooong" YUCK !!!

What a DAMN SHAME because there was some good material on there - Saw The Fire, especially..

I don't understand how these BRILLIANT musicians Can't HEAR how BAD those synths sound, especially when compared to the Classic PH instrumentation!! What Were They Thinking???? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Joan :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:01:09 +0200
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Wilfried Van Damme <Wilfried.VanDamme@rug.ac.be
Subject: introduction

There's too many women and not enough wine Too many poets and not enough rhyme Too many glasses and not enough time Draw your own conclusions

In the Autumn of 1973, around the time I was turning 13, I bought my first Procol album, a sampler covering the first four albums. It was my first acquaintance with the band, beyond the 'hit singles'. The acquaintance was intense, demanding yet greatly rewarding. A few months later I bought "Live" which again managed to impress me deeply. Procol became my favourite group, and has been ever since.

I started to collect the albums that had been issued until then - one at the time, whenever money allowed me. Incidentally, the opportunity to tape the records never presented itself, for there did not seem to be anyone around who possessed them! (As I understand by now, this feeling of insularity has been experienced by many Procol fans. But thank gawd, then there was Henry Scott-Irving, followed by Diane Rolph and John Grayson, and now we have Jens's wonderful website and everything it spawns!).

While time went on, I often wondered why people had such a hard time appreciating the music of Procol Harum. One Procol song would display more musical inventiveness than a whole album of some successful band taken together! And listen to that drummer! Ever heard anything like that!? (It's so great to read the praise for BJ Wilson in the AOL comments and elsewhere - for that matter, and contrary to the idea of a general lack of outside recognition, some 10 or 15 years I saw a rock drummers encyclopedia where BJ was called the second most influential rock drummer ever, only to be surpassed by Ringo Starr (sic).)

To be sure, in the Netherlands, where I was born and raised, Procol Harum fortunately did turn out to be a favourite band of several rock journalists (including Frans Steensma) and dj's - a situation that compares favourably to Belgium, where I have lived for the past 17 years (I went to Belgium to go to university, and I am presently working as a so-called postdoctoral researcher in the Dept. of Ethnic Art at the University of Ghent, which is how I got connected to the exciting world of the Internet). Thoughout the years, I have also followed the musical careers of Robin Trower, Matthew Fisher and Gary Brooker. Looking back, however, for me the essence of Procol Harum still lies in that, well, 'melancholic' atmosphere evoked by the extraordinary blend of music and lyrics on the first four albums.

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Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:36:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com Message-ID: <970904223608_-1633103665@emout05.mail.aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: introduction

And listen to that drummer! Ever heard anything like that!? (It's so great to read the praise for BJ Wilson in the AOL comments and elsewhere - for that matter, and contrary to the idea of a general lack of outside recognition, some 10 or 15 years [ago] I saw a rock drummers encyclopedia where BJ was called the second most influential rock drummer ever, only to be surpassed by Ringo Starr (sic).)<<

WoW!!! Can you remember anything more about that Book??? I've been reading the Drummer Magazines for the last couple of years and BJ is NEVER mentioned unfortunately.. I'm glad he's been acknowledged as he deserves somewhere anyway... And isn't it Great that Gary has Finally praised him so Eloquently -- and the wonderful Cozy Powell comment from 1971?? Thanks to the Net we don't need to be at the mercy of Magazine Editors anymore!

And to Bill & others who don't like the later albums so much -- yes it was a different band w/o Fisher, but a great one anyway.. I suggest listening to HOME, EBAF, and Grand Hotel by concentrating as much attention as possible on - you guessed it - BJW!!! He's not loud enough in the mix of course, but by focusing on him I think you'll be richly rewarded.. HOME has some fantastic drumming - e.g. Nothing That I Didn't Know - and GH is one of my Favorite PH albums! There's not Too much orchestration - just on 2 tracks - Mick G really Shines on Toujours L'Amour and Bacon; and For Liquorice John and Fires... are BJW Tours De Force (is that correct French? <G). The title track and TV Ceasar have great drumming too but you have to tune out that orchestration.. Follow Those Drums and you won't be Sorry!

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 00:40:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: LeoBome@aol.com
To: Wilfried.VanDamme@rug.ac.be, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: introduction

I just saw Procols good friend Doug Adams on the tube promoting an interactive CD that his company is producing. Perhaps he will be the one to produce the long awaited, much anticipated, absolutly essential PROCOL HARUM INTERACTIVE CD ROM.

He had vintage guitars all over his studio too. He is "into" technology. Jem33 will want to know what TV program I saw this on and I think it was Access Hollywood or one of those kind of shows.

\ BTW if you hav'nt emailed your request to the Midnight Special and VH1 requesting PH material be shown, please do so NOW!

Someone commented that Keith Reids lyrics were not profound. I beg to differ. IMHO A profound statement opens the imagination of the listener to possibilities that didn't exist prior to that moment in time. KRs lyrics have stimulated conceptual possibilities in my mind since I first heard "still my reasons will not rhyme and still you tell me it's not time". (Just to pick one out of the air)

Jem33 responded with a comment about "heavy philosopical lyrics" getting in the way of the music. I should find her quote and paste it here. <too much meaning in lyrics interferes with my enjoyment of the music.. KR is Perfect for the way I listen to songs - his words Sound so Musical - and/or evoke brief interesting perceptual images - e.g. in Cerdes, one of my favorites.. But a great philosopher he Ain't imho..

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Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:24:49 +0400
From: George <pcmcia@geocities.com
To: Procol Harum e-mail list <procol@progrock.org
Subject: may I?

I enjoy reading these posts very much. Thanks to all PH friends for making their statements. I understand it very well, one just has to pour out of his/her system all the feelings accumulated over the years for want of a sympathetic ear. These statements, taken together, convey the magic of PH music much better than any article in a rock encyclopedia. In recognition of this, I'd like to ask your permission for publishing some excerpts from these post on my Web site which is largely devoted to PH. If anyone has any objections please let me know.

George _______________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/2075

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Date: 5 Sep 1997 15:18:21 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly vision)
Subject: Greetings from a new recruit

I'm a 22 yr. old college student who feels that music stopped after 1981 and thankfully is making more of his peers get into the particular rock of Procol Harum..They've been intersting to me in that I play them non stop yet they are not my favorite band in the universe, that and the unique instrumentatio, words etc are all top notch--it's Music.

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Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 14:43:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Procol9@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Greetings from a new recruit

How comforting to see someone else who entirely missed Procol Harum in their prime...I'm not the only one! For those of you who don't know me from AOL and such, I'm Annabel Gill, and unfortunately, I was born after Procol broke up (I'm 15). I often think I was born a generation too late. I frankly find the huge majority of current music repugnant in it's blatant commerciality--music for the sake of money, as opposed to music for the sake of music. I, too, am constantly trying to turn people my age onto Procol Harum, and sometimes I succeed. Hopefully, Procol's incredible music will live on for many years beyond their generation. Anyways, nice to meet you all! -Annabel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Sep 1997 20:27:23 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly vision)
Subject: Tunes that LPs forgot

Having heard of Stoke Poges, A Robe of Silk (which I heard Gary sing at the Conert to End All Concerts in Redhill), and an alternate version of In the Wee Small hours, Just how many and what are the unreleased Procol tunes are there in the vaults? Secondly, how does one be fortunate enough to hear these gems from a bygone age?

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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 13:03:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: pcmcia@geocities.com cc: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: may I?

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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:17:27 -0400
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly vision)
Subject: Live PH

Here's an interesting question I was thinking of during an umpteeth run through of "In the Wee Small Hours of Sixpence:" What songs in the Procol repertoire were never played live when the band was actually a recording entitiy (excepting Prodigal Stranger and Long Goodbye)?

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Midnight Special Marathon on VH1

VH1 has announced another MS Marathon this Sunday - 9/14 - starting at noon ( they didn't mention time zones).. They said there would be some episodes never before shown on VH1. As I only get excerpts of this channel after midnight -- can some PH fans be on the lookout for that GREAT 11/30/73 show that PH hosted?

This may also be a good time to (re)email Paul Brownstein Productions about releasing it on home video, and/or showing it on VH-1.

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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:55:42 +0200
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Wilfried Van Damme <Wilfried.VanDamme@rug.ac.be
Subject: procol live

One of the nice things of reading the postings in this discussion group or the pages on Jens' website is being reminded of certain songs that you may then listen to with 'fresh ears', which can lead to (re)discovering a song's attraction. For example, following Joan's mentioning of 'Green Onions', I enjoyed relistening to this instrumental on MF's solo album 'A Salty Dog Returns', and I wondered, did Mathew exhibit such soulful rocking on the organ during the most recent Procol tours as well? Here is one fan who never saw Procol Live!! Judging from the reviews, I must have missed a lot!

Now apart from the Edmonton album, where to my mind the band does a great performance, and Power Failure, where at least BJ is more than great, the only acquaintance I have with live Procol performances is the Rainbow concert album. What I'm about to say may be considered blasphemy, but I don't think Procol is quite convincing here as a live band (the complexity of 'Grand Hotel' is of course a factor to be taken into account). How do you people who have witnessed Procol on stage, in the mid-1970's or at other times, rate this performance?

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Date: 12 Sep 1997 20:47:55 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly vision)
Subject: Sundry tidbits

Abstract: Veteran music producer Denny Cordell, who worked with such artists as the Moody Blues, Procol Harum, and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, passed away at age 51 of lymphoma. Record labels Cordell has been associated with include Shelter Records,Regal Zonophone, and Decca's Deram imprint.

and: from an article about Annie Lenox's _Medusa_ CD: There are, however, some that have personal significance, such as "Whiter Shade Of Pale." "I have known this song since I was 14, it was the first record I ever bought. It strikes a chord with me, and when I recorded it, I thought, I'm not going to mess with this. I've got to think that this is the best version bar from the original."

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Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:02:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: ProcolHrum@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Sundry tidbits

<< and: from an article about Annie Lenox's _Medusa_ CD: There are, however, some that have personal significance, such as "Whiter Shade Of Pale." "I have known this song since I was 14, it was the first record I ever bought. It strikes a chord with me, and when I recorded it, I thought, I'm not going to mess with this. I've got to think that this is the best version bar from the original." Jason, your message brought to my mind again how cover versions of songs by other popular artists serve a valuable function. They can introduce material to new listeners, sometimes leading them to the origional artists. Examples spring to mind. Laura Nero, a wonderful performer (who regretfully died this year) never achieved the widespread popularity she deserved, but covers by The 5th Dimension and Barbara Streisand have immortalized several of her songs. While a cover version of A Salty Dog could result in a travesty bordering on blasphemy<g, I think I could overlook that if it brought a few more listeners around to discover the true genius of the origional. Just a thought. I could be wrong. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Sep 1997 15:55:27 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly vision)
Subject: Covers and re-igniting interest

While a cover version of A Salty Dog could result in a travesty bordering on blasphemy<g, I think I could overlook that if it brought a few more listeners around to discover the true genius of the origional. The delicacy with which attempts to re-do a procol tune is indeed a tough call.. 'specially in this age of "tribute" albums that really don't do much to the music other than ruin it or make more money off of it needlessly. OTOH, It is interesting to see what bands exist which have been influenced enough by the band being tributed(?) to do a rendition of said band's tune...The problem that exists with procol's music in particular is the non-standard instrumentation...though completely re-arranging a ditty might be neat pending what was chosen. Procol has a sound which is very defined and needs great care in re-creating in the spirit in which the originals were made....or something like that.

On the topic of Procol live that was brought up, I have had the pleasure of listening to the 1969 Easter Island bootleg (thanks again!), as well as one from Sweden in 1971 AND the Redhill Show of Shows. (for which I'm most likely gonig to be paying for long into next year :)) I'll say this much for the group's sound then and now: It's tighter, more refined, and seems less prone to longwindedness now. BUT, With the sad passing of BJ, it has lost a bit of...drive? I think that's the word. All in all though, with Gary and Matthew appearing to have a jolly good time belting out sonic wonderment on their respective 'boards, I'd say about 90% of the original power of the group is in tact...a mighty feat for any musical group that's been in service as long as Procol has w/out many new releases bar compilations. At times, Mick Grabham was indeed dead on in filling that 10% left over in his soloing...but when it came to Cerdes, I must admit it needed Trower's warbling demon guitar of olde to fully crystallize the power of the tune (that and BJ, but that's always a given).

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Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: ProcolHrum@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Covers and re-igniting interest

<< The problem that exists with procol's music in particular is the non-standard instrumentation...though completely re-arranging a ditty might be neat pending what was chosen. Procol has a sound which is very defined and needs great care in re-creating in the spirit in which the originals were made....or something like that.

The problems endemic to creating cover versions of PH tunes were well in mind as I wrote my comments. And You have put your finger squarely upon them. I can think of few PH compositions that could be re-arranged while avoiding the "travesty" scenerio. Their music and sound have a symbiosis which even defied GB's best intentions when he turned Simple Sister over to Tom Jones for the "Long Goodbye" album. Realizing , of course, that this entire topic is repugnant to most PH fans (myself included) I still find that a few minutes reflection on the artistic and technical difficulties involved is more challenging and stimulating than ......well.....say, screwing around with Rubik's cube for an hour. And besides, whilst puttering about in my yard I have caught my mind wandering into even more bazaar territory than this. Just a thought. I could be hanged.<g Richard

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:51:39 +0100
To: Procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly Vision)
Subject: Re: Covers and re-igniting interest again

In a message dated 97-09-13 11:56:39 EDT, you write: avoiding the "travesty" scenerio. Their music and sound have a symbiosis which even defied GB's best intentions when he turned Simple Sister over to Tom Jones for the "Long Goodbye" album. Not to mention the sonic horror of poor Jerry Hadely being given the task of operatizing (is that a real word? it should be) "Grand Hotel." I was rather impressed with the re-arrangement of "Strangers in Space" though...nicely huanting and ambient in a certain way. Personally though, a symphonic "Mabel" and "fresh fruit" would have made my day heehee:)

Speaking of spymphonies, who were the musicians who did the strings, horns etc on _A Salty Dog_? They deserve credit for something---making Procol a Classical rock band without being overly pretentious and daft in said recorded attempts..

Here's a neat thread we might use in order to pick up the pace on here (borrowed from Elephant Talk-the King Crimson mailing list): What musical moment of Procol harum sends "tingles" up your spine everytime you hear it? (aka What is the defining moment of what Procol Harum means to you?)

I can't answer the question yet because a: I have to go to clasesses now and b: I'd have to peruse my collection first.

this. Just a thought. I could be hanged.<g That would be bad....PH fans don't come by the barrel anymore. we need all we can find:)

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Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Procol9@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Covers and re-igniting interest again

<<Here's a neat thread we might use in order to pick up the pace on here (borrowed from Elephant Talk-the King Crimson mailing list): What musical moment of Procol harum sends "tingles" up your spine everytime you hear it? (aka What is the defining moment of what Procol Harum means to you?)

Without question, for me this is the part in Skip Softly when the piano solo segues into the guitar solo, and the drums come in--the combination of Robin Trower's searing guitar up front, cutting through the serenity of the piano solo (which continues underneath if you listen), B.J.'s musical drumming, the bass plodding along, and then the organ crazily sweeping in is absolutely sublime. It's that idea of restrained power--what makes it so great is the way it seems on the very verge of chaos, but it holds together beautifully. On live versions I've heard (from bootlegs) where they substitute the Strauss piece from "2001" for the piano solo, it doesn't have quite the same "tingly" effect because there's no particular moment when the guitar, drums, and bass overtake the piano, but the way the guitar comes in substitutes for that pretty well and Robin's solo there is always incredible. So there you go. It'll be interesting to hear other people's Procol Harum "moments", or to see if anyone else relates to this one.

--Annabel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 1997 21:45:55 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly Vision)
Subject: My fave tinglies (how's that for a bad subject?:)

I'd have to split them up band memberwise and then culminate with the best band moment:

K.Reid- tie between Barnyard Story and Crucifiction Land (esp. the last line) R.Trower- Repent Walpurgis/Long Gone Geek G.Brooker- A Rum Tale pianowise and A Salty Dog voicewise M.Fisher- the solo on Quite Rightly So, hands down. and "Autumn" from In held voicewise B.J. Wilson- is it fair to say the first 3 lps and Strong as Samson?:) M.Grabham- Toujours L'Amour D.Knights- She Wandered Through the Garden Fence and Cerdes A. Cartwright- Drunk Again C.Copping- the organ fills on Toujours L'Amour and basswise the evil scale in Whaling Stories (I don't have Something magic so it can't be used for Solley and co.)

drumroll please BJ-- my fave crystallization of all that is Procol has to be Kaliedescope from the Easter Island bootleg...the intensity of its speed and the thunderous percussion in the final chord sequences rip holes through anything possibly distracting my mind. The band is tight, fearsome and as electrifed as any major city on a business day. The End :)

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From: bill@progrock.org (Bill Hammell)
To: <Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: songs that tingle the spine
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:44:47 -0400

I'd say the "Repent Walpurgis" from _The Long Goodbye_ Symphonic CD. Robin and Matthew's playing here makes me long for a new PH album that would have the classical influence once again. I'd call it quite the finalé for PH "studio" projects if in fact it was. I want more though ;)

Bill P.S. was the Redhill show recorded by the band? and if not was it recorded digitally (DAT) by anyone? ;)

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:18:05 +0200
From: Jens Anders Ravnaas <jensan@online.no Reply-
To: jensan@online.no Organization: SN Internett
To: bill@progrock.org CC: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: songs that tingle the spine

P.S. was the Redhill show recorded by the band? and if not was it recorded digitally (DAT) by anyone? ;)

Apparently (see Ron Smith's Pete Solley interview on my website) it was recorded by Gary Brooker on a DAT from the mixing board, but not intended for release. Also, the theatre was full of recorders, and I suppose some of them where DAT's. But that would all be ambient recordings.

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:48:12 +0200
From: Frank Matheus <matheus@uni-muenster.de Reply-
To: matheus@uni-muenster.de
To: Procol Harum <procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: songs that tingle the spine

<PI always love the individual musical contribution of the different band-members; they all add something to the music which makes it unmistakable. For example, the starting guitar riff of  "Simple Sister" is an original "Trower-play", and no other guitarist has achieved to make the beginning sound similiar, not even Mick Grabham (whose greatest moment is "Unquiet Zone", in my opinion). Mick is playing great in the live versions (London 1974, Hollywood Bowl 1973), and he adds his own musical ideas, being more disciplinate than Robin - and so it sounds  different. <BRAnother example is the difficult drum piece in the middle of "Bringing home the Bacon"; B.J. is playing it very musically with a retarding moment, that no other drummer has  reached, although they are all doing a good job (especially John Broad in Red Hill). <BRI  always loved Chris Copping's organ on "Pandora's Box" in the studio version (and I still do), but I was enthusiastic about Pete Solley's version when I heard them live in 1977. His solo at the end of the piece was really great (does anyone remember these last concerts of Procol in the seventies?), but when I listened to Matthew playing it during their reunion-tour in 1992, it turned into another sphere, became different piece, a kind of blues shuffle.

<PEnough for today; I'm interested in your sight of the things (as we say in Germany) <BRFrank</HTML

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Date: 16 Sep 1997 13:35:45 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly Vision)
Subject: On the merits of booting Redhill...

For some reason, maybe selfishness because I went or some bizarre notion of a long dead ethic, but I don't think I'd want a bootleg of Redhill (which most likely exists---I saw a guy w/ a video camera if I remember correctly in the audience 4 row in front of me and to the left). It actually made me a bit sad to see that person recording what most likely will be a once-in-a-lifetime event-for almost any band for that matter. I think it's the fact that if they wanted to record it themselves (the band) and release it as a CD or somesuch, they wouldh have told one and all at the show, thus bringing in the more intimacy in the sense the audience for a breif second is highly important for the release. No recording, no matter how well ripped from the audience's recording paraphenalia, could come close to halfway relaying -for me at least- the spirit of what went on. For some reason i have the nagging suspicion that it might not impress me as a recording if I had never been there. I dont know why. Odd isn't it? after all we relive past glories from past incarnations of Procol Harum with our own bootleg collections...but i think it's different if you actually attended the show in question. Well at least it makes a difference for me. Just a thought.

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:28:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Tingles from BJ, MF, RT

Hey - I LOVE "Elephant Talk" by the great Adrian Belew and King Crimson - saw them do it on the Fridays TV show when the Discipline Album first came out - absolutely Incredible!!! Belew's goofy facial expressions and stage moves added to the excitement! But I digress (referencing someone's comment about getting this Topic off a KC list called Elephant Talk...)...

I have So Many spine tingling PH moments - many courtesy of BJW of course -- e.g. on Nothing That I Didn't Know - when Gary goes up to the high notes - right before "strike me dead" -- WoW!! I've never Heard drumming like That!!!! And ya know what? In that R. Copping video - the unreleased version - it just Wasn't the same!! Glad they used the version they did!!! Other BJW moments: most of For Liquorice John; most of Fires Which Burnt Brightly.. esp his interplay with the scat singer -- I didn't even Like that singer's being there, but BJ compensated for that with his brilliant counterpoint.. And his Conquistador and ASD drumming at Edmonton - again I LOVE those versions Despite the orchestra, because the drums are Recorded so Well....

re: MF -- the Entire organ melody of AWSOP ( including the 8 bar solo and the melodic lines under the vocal) still thrills me Every Time - and I like it best JUST the way it was played on Procol's First - I don't care for too many variations - except for the lovely ending he does in the LIVE shows, instead of the fade-out..

Another MF moment - on Prodigal Stranger of all things - His ending to King of Hearts!! I think that's my Favorite part of the whole PS album. I've heard LIVE versions of this where he Does change it around and it Still sounds glorious! . I LONG to hear him play a Whole (new) Piece in that style again!!

And - another great moment I've recently come to believe was MF -- the gorgeous piano solo in Grand Finale (MF did compose all the music for GF - that's been confirmed by KR in the new SOB liner notes).. Jason reported on Usenet (before he lost his connection to that Site <G) that MF played that piano solo at Redhill, albeit (damn) on a Synth!! Oh well I bet it sounded great anyway..

re RT - Cerdes and Walpurgis - the versions on Procol's First. ( I didn't care for the Symphonic Walpurgis - my husband said RT sounded like he was playing that in a tuxedo! LOL!!! )

IMO the BEST playing RT has ever done was on Procol's First - those 2 tracks.. I loved his Tone too - most of you have heard this from me before, please forgive - but to me he sounded like a wild frenzied electrified Cello.. a sound he sadly lost soon afterwards..

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:26:26 +0400
From: George <pcmcia@geocities.com
To: Jem33@aol.com CC: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Tingles from BJ, MF, RT

Hi Joan, I second some 98 percent of your opinions and I have great respect for your knowledge of the subject but I just have to comment on some of your remarks. The "scat singer" you dislike is one of the greatest vocalists of all times, Christine Legran, the one of the Swingle Singers and the Double Six fame. Just listen to them singing Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi, etc. If there is Heaven and if there are angels there they must sing in voices like her. The issue of whether it was a good idea to invite an outsider to sing on a PH album is a different matter altogether and is open to debate. Also, what's so bad about "synths"? It's just an instrument, an extension of the idea of an electronic organ, if you like. It's lack of culture and musical taste that's to blame for the trash youngsters are listening to nowadays.

re RT - Cerdes and Walpurgis - the versions on Procol's First. ( I didn't care for the Symphonic Walpurgis - my husband said RT sounded like he was playing that in a tuxedo! LOL!!! )

Best, Joan :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:03:14 -0400
To: procol@progrock.org
From: "Mark C. Leffler" <mleffler@ix.netcom.com
Subject: bootlegs

It has been a lomg time since the days of the "local head shop" where I could go in and browse the boots, so to speak. Now it seems that there are a great deal of Procol bootlegs that some of you speak quite fondly of.

Can someone recommend: 1) Which are the essential Procol bootlegs (sound quality & performance) 2) Where can I obtain these?

Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:05:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Tingles from BJ, MF, RT

The "scat singer" you dislike is one of the greatest vocalists of all times, Christine Legran....The issue of whether it was a good idea to invite an outsider to sing on a PH album is a different matter altogether and is open to debate. <<<

Yes she's a good singer, but that doesn't mean she belongs on a PH song.. I think a great band - Especially PH - is like a living organism - with its own unique identity - and that to add extraneous Stuff (orchestra, synth, chorus, handclaps, xylophone, bells, marimba, horns, non-PH singers, wooden flute, etc.. ) violates the integrity of the band - waters it down or mucks it up with homogenizing Filler. That's my pet peeve about PRODUCERS - I think the Producer should be absolutely Silent - with a band like PH anyway - which sounded so Fantastic LIVE, and which had such a signature sound due to its instrumentation. The Beatles Needed an Activist producer because - let's face it - they didn't sound very exciting LIVE - they had no really GREAT Musicians - they just wrote good songs. PH on the other hand had So Many Phenomenal Musicians - Trower, BJW, Fisher, Grabham, and of course Gary - one of the Strongest, most Exciting Singers around! I'm so sorry they felt the need to Dilute and cover up all that amazing Musicianship on their Albums..possibly influenced by The Beatles.. It didn't work for PH; their greatest strength - their LIVE MUSICIANSHIP - was Lost! As I think I've said here - ironically - Edmonton was a HIT because it captured PH's REAL sound the BEST of all the albums - Despite the orchestra - because of Wally Heider's Amazing Engineering - especially re BJW!!!.

Just curious - how many of you have seen PH LIVE - and if so - which incarnations did you see?

I saw them during HOME and Grand Hotel tours - both Fantastic!!!!!! The BEST sound I've ever heard Anywhere!!!!! I'm sorry I never saw the Fisher incarnation - I'm a relatively New MF fan, just started focusing on him in the last 2 years, since finding out that he, not Bach, composed the organ melody of AWSOP.. The only incarnation I wouldn't have liked was when they used - you guessed it - the Synth instead of the Hammond (1977)....

Also, what's so bad about "synths"? It's just an instrument, an extension of the idea of an electronic organ, if you like.<<

OK - this is a matter of personal taste - and I think we all literally hear things a bit differently due to differing nervous systems. So I don't expect to convince anyone to hear things the way I do..

I don't care for the sound of electronic keyboards in general - the only one I like is MF's Hammond - the ethereal cathedral sound he manages to achieve... coupled with his Magic Touch..

It's basically the Tonal Quality of the synth -- I just don't like it -- I find it Extremely Annoying.. It's hard to put all this into words.. There's often a high pitched "sheen" that permeates the music - filling up all the air spaces - homogenizing the sound - similar to what an orchestra does, but more mechanical...

1) A synth is a lot more fun to play than to listen to 2) You can get millions of different sounds with a synth - and every one of them sounds like shit.

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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:01:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Just Checking

I wonder if some of the messages on this List aren't getting to us because of that "reply" button thing? On other Lists I've been on, hitting "reply" sends the email to the Group - but here it just sends it to the person whose email you're responding to..

Just checking to make sure everyone knows that you need to Reply "by hand" to procol@progrock.org - i.e. type that address in the "TO" box... not just hit the "reply" button - if that's clear as Mud <G

Bill - is there any way to fix this situation, so our replies automatically go the Group?

Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bill@progrock.org (Bill Hammell)
To: <procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Just Checking
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:03:44 -0400

To send a reply to the list, hit "reply to all" instead of just "reply to". This will send the post to both the sender and to the list. This is the way I feel the list is best set up. In all the other lists I am on it has become evident that having the default reply sent "public" can be a problem. People easily send messages meant only for private reading to the entire list, and it can be embarrassing. Plus sending replys to the person in private can be a hard thing to do on those lists. To have the list the way you mention you could switch to Digest Mode, where default replies go to the list and not the sender. To change to digest mode visit the URL at the bottom of all Procol Harum list posts.

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From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Just Checking
Date: Thursday, September 18, 1997 8:01 PM Hi All! I wonder if some of the messages on this List aren't getting to us because of that "reply" button thing? On other Lists I've been on, hitting "reply" sends the email to the Group - but here it just sends it to the person whose email you're responding to.. Just checking to make sure everyone knows that you need to Reply "by hand" to procol@progrock.org - i.e. type that address in the "TO" box... not just hit the "reply" button - if that's clear as Mud <G Bill - is there any way to fix this situation, so our replies automatically go the Group? Thanks!

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:58:10 -0400
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Alan Semok <asemok@IDT.NET
Subject: essential boots

Now it seems that there area great deal of Procol bootlegs that some of you speak quite fondly of. Can someone recommend: 1) Which are the essential Procol bootlegs (sound quality & performance) 2) Where can I obtain these?

There are dozens of concert tapes circulating among collectors, but there are precious few bootleg CD's out there. I've gotten a few PH discs from Midnight Records in NYC, including the excellent "EASTER ISLAND", "THROUGH A GARDEN FENCE", and "LONDON 1974"...of the three, I'd say EASTER ISLAND is the essential one, even if the sound is a little "dupey" (it is a multi-multi generation copy of a 1969 soundboard tap)...the raw energy of the band in its original lineup more than makes up for any shortcomings in the sound. Best of all, it captures the intensity of the band exactly as I remember it from all those years ago. Of the several live broadcast concerts the group did, the old vinyl boot THE ELUSIVE PROCOL HARUM is a kind of classic with the group as a quartet playing at A&R Studios in NYC during the "Home" tour, and broadcast live on W-PLJ-FM. Overall, I think the band has sounded better than this show represents, but there are some very fine moments (very energised renditions of Memorial Drive, Still There'll Be More, Power Failure, and Whiskey Train) that make ELUSIVE worth seeking out. AL

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Date: 19 Sep 1997 15:16:12 -0000
To: procol@progrock.org
From: scruto19@potsdam.edu (Bolts of Ungodly Vision)
Subject: A mumblin' in London that isn't going to shrink?

At the very end of a Souvenir of London, after the 22 instrument assault of BJ stops, there's a voice saying something. I think I know what he's saying but since I dont have the disc on me i cant put forth a guess on here. anyone know a story behind the little blurb?

PS: Procol bootlegs are all worth getting, for the band in all its incarnations often expesses more subtle flavors to our fave pieces, thus making the whole experience worth while. (Thanks again to Jem33 and Alan S. for your assistance in getting "booted up" as it were:))

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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:30:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Procol9@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: essential boots

<<there are some very fine moments (very energised renditions of Memorial Drive, Still There'll Be More, Power Failure, and Whiskey Train) that make ELUSIVE worth seeking out.

Why does my copy not have Whiskey Train on it? It actually lists it on the cover, along with "Power Failures" [sic], neither of which are on the record. Salty Dog is the last one. I think that they perform a very good version of Whaling Stories ("Fare Thee Well"), and Shine on Brightly is good too. B.J.'s drumming on Still there'll be More is great. It's a very enjoyable record. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:02:12 +0100
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Introducing ...

Greetings to fellow-Procoholics: I can best introduce myself to this list by referring you to 'This Old Cat', on Jens's website, which touches on anything you might want to know about PH-and-me.

I've just been listening to a concert tape of 'Last Train to Niagara' ... wish I could catch all the words. Ditto 'Robe of Silk'. Can anyone help? ====================================================

Roland Clare, Bristol, England ==================================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:51:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jem33@aol.com
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Trower Interview

There's a pretty good interview with RT in the 10/97 (current) issue of Vintage Guitar Magazine - complete with some photos. He mentions PH quite a bit, which surprsed me, as he usually doesn't in interviews. No great earthshattering news, though. When asked why he didn't tour with the 90's PH he said it was because he was recording and touring "as a sideman" with Bryan Ferry at the time -- which doesn't really answer the question, as in -- why did he choose to go with Ferry instead of stay with PH? But it does go along with his graciousness when he was asked about this before - he won't diss his former bandmates (just won't show up at their Party, etc..<G).. I think he underestimates the extent of his contribution to the PH sound, especially on the First and Home. He was a Major reason I got into the band in the first place, and his LIVE sound was fantastic!!! I think he's Never played better than he did in PH!

One coincidence of interest probably only to me -- I've always said RT's guitar sound on Procol's First was like a wild cello - and haven't yet found anyone (except my husband) who agrees with me on that. Well, RT was describing his equipment and mentioned that his very first guitar - acquired when he was 14 years old - was "shaped like a cello."

cc: AOL, alt.rock-n-roll.classic ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bill@progrock.org (Bill Hammell)
To: <procol@progrock.org
Subject: big news! PROCOL HARUM BOX ANNIVERSARY SET IS OUT!
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:12:34 -0400

I just checked out www.takenotes.com and their new releases for today and lo and behold this appears on their list:

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Procol Harum

Beyond the Pale

The Procol Harum e-mail list archive

September 1997 (thanks, Bill Hammell)

Beyond
the Pale