DMarch 1998: The Procol Harum e-mail List

Procol Harum

Beyond
the Pale

The Procol Harum e-mail list archive

March 1998 part (b) (thanks, Bill Hammell)

From: Oman IV <OmanIV@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:09:31 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: the Archies (just kidding!)

Sorry, I couldn't help it! First saw them at the Cafe Au GoGo on Bleeker St.
in 1967 in NYC playing to about 50 people (a lot of press) and Gary introduced
it as Tchaikowshy's 25th Raga - was this just a goof, or some kind of "in"
joke? It was their first US gig. Does anyone know if the third verse* was
ever recorded? It doesn't scan very well, especially the last line - it was
supposed to be on the "legendary 12 1/2 minute" version". There was also a
Scopitone (little 16mm "Soundie" for a "jukebox") done of "Pale" - I think it
was at Trafalgar Sq., or wherever those shots like the rear cover of "disc 3"
of the Anneversary set. (Love it!!!!) John Overall, South Orange, NJ (USA)
Oman IV @aol.com
"She said she was on shore leave, PS I'd like to
subscribe, but I get
When in truth we were at sea. a message that it
already is?
So I took her by the mirror,
And forced her to agree,
Saying you must be the mermaid,
Who took Neptune for a ride.
And she smiled at me so sweetly
That my anger straightforward died."
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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 12:16:24 -0500
From: Melissa Brown <mbrowne@warwick.net
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Heresies

I'm a "member"/Procolholic (been getting regular discussions/mailings on
my e-mail for a while...hi, everyone!). I should probably establish my
credential before I voice my heresies. I've been hooked since hearing
The Devil Came From Kansas as a 14-year-old. I anxiously bought the
album and was disappointed to find...all this organ/piano/poetic stuff.
Like a good 14 year old I threw it aside and went back to Jimi Hendrix,
The Doors and Steppenwolf. (My girlfriend liked Joni Mitchell.)

Then I started to love everything on the album -- everything I had
hated. A Salty Dog and A Pilgrim's Progress the most. I obsessively
bought their albums over the years, even to the point of tracking down
Matthew's solo albums (my fiancee came back from a trip to England
having bought a "Wild Man Fisher" album thinking he was the same guy)
and, of course, bought Gary's albums. I compulsively listened to "Just
Like A Woman" on Joe Cocker's early album, just to hear B.J., Matthew
and what I considered to be a Procol track. I regularly play A Salty
Dog on the piano (yes, in the key of C#) and run through A Rum's Tale
(remembering the middle/transposed part that Gary -- on Danish TV --
said he couldn't remember anymore). When I was at college I formed a
group (with violins, French Horn, a chorus, piano, organ, guitar,
trumpet, drums) to do a lot of PH's music. We did most of Grand Hotel,
some of Exotic Birds and Fruit, some early stuff...and In Held Twas in
I. We were called The Oberlin Rock and Roll Consortium.

Having said that, here's what I need to say:
1) When PH clicked, they were sheer genius. They clicked a lot.
2) When Procol "missed", they did so by such a wide margin that it
became almost unlistenable &/or embarassing. I suppose this is the
price of genius.
3) Of course almost anything Gary turns out (with that voice!...though
it is straying a bit sometimes lately...into
sharpness..flatness..unusualness...but is still his unique voice)
featuring a Hammond organ and thundering drums in the background will
"pass" as a "Procol" song for the next several decades, but this may be
unfortunate. In short: Gary needed Matthew more than he knew. The
dramatic tensions in the early albums (musically) held the albums to the
mark.
4) The same applied to Robin. It wasn't possible to listen to the
group without KNOWING that something would have to "give"; Robin was so
begging to be cut loose. The tension worked brilliantly. If only he
could have stayed....if only it were possible to have done that...

5) Gary consistently -- and historically -- does not "get" that Matthew
Fisher was not a "guest" or someone who "contributed a lot" to the group
-- he WAS half the group's sound (i.e., half the group). (I know, I
know, B.J. and Robin....so my math is off...). In what only can be seen
as charming British understatement (polite, funny...etc.) Gary brushes
off the true nature of the band repeatedly. It is either willful
misunderstanding or true ignorance of what existed. But it is
fundamentally false.

1) Lime Street Blues is -- and always was -- atrocious. It is
embarassing to listen to, and was dated by the time it was recorded.
Listen to it while watching AUSTIN POWERS, perhaps, and consider it
appropriate for such a sound-track.

2) "Home" is one of the most god-awful depressing albums of the 20th
century. The lyrics are so strongly of the
"let's-all-go-kill-ourselves" variety as to make me long for the "few
tweet-tweets" again.

3) Broken Barricades may have been one of their finest moments. Power
Failure was extraordinary.

4) The "Worm & the Tree"? Are you kidding? Someone thought this was
releasable? Judgement? Mercy! (Still, there'll be more..)

5) Prodigal Stranger is a very mixed bag. "Learn to Fly" is one of the
stupidest songs I've ever heard, absolutely over-the-edge in its
rah-rah-1980's-"go-for-it!"-inspirational-blah-de-blah-military-recruitment-type-messages.....Can
the person who wrote the lyrics to AWSoP really have written:'

        "Learn to fly
        Where eagles only dare to try
        We're on the wing
        We dare to win
        We see the future and
        We're going to make it.."

The only reason why this song hasn't been picked up by the U.S. Air
Force as a theme is because the music is so bad.

So there we go, folks. These people aren't Gods. Please consider this
an antidote to all the idol-worshipping/religiosity. Their failures
were as real and profound as those of the rest of us, only they stick
out so strongly because of the brilliance of the rest of the magic they
created.

No flaming, please? I come in friendship. I hope someone who can will
pass this on to the guys and that they have a good laugh with it.

Jerry Sander
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Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:43:19 +0100
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: StereoHomburg

Just though some of you might be interested in a copy of the e-mail I
just sent to Roland Clare, Westside:

Just a few words concerning the stereo mix of "Homburg". The first time
I ever came across it was on a Fly budget album in 1971, "The Best Of
Procol Harum". It was part of a series that also included best of albums
by The Move and Joe Cocker. So I that's probably where the Hatch Farm
tapes are from. In that case they have not been locked away and
forgotten for 30, but 26 years.

Come to think of it. The stereo mix of "Homburg" was also used on one
Castle Communications Procol Harum CD-compilation in the 80's. Maybe
someone had payed Hatch Farm a visit?

Another curio. Being a journalist I did an interview with Gary Brooker
and Keith Reid when Procol Harum visited Norway in 1975. They not only
denied the existence of a stereo mix of "Homburg" (my original question
was something like: Why has the stereo mix only been used once, on that
Fly compilation?), but Brooker got really pissed off when I kept
insisting that I had the actual mix in my own record collection.
- Impossible!
He almost screamed, red headed and all.
- It was NEVER mixed in stereo. A stereo-version of "Homburg" simply
does not exist! What you got must be in fake stereo!
- But...
I said.
- ..it is not fake, it is crystal clear, with the piano in one channel,
voice in the middle...
By the look of his face I then chose to change topic, or my interview
would have ended right there.

So Brooker (and Reid) obviously did not know that someone had done a
stereo mix of "Homburg".

Regards
Yan
--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:33:11 EST
To: yfriis@online.no, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: StereoHomburg

<< So Brooker (and Reid) obviously did not know that someone had done a
stereo mix of "Homburg".

And the befuddlement grew.............and
grew................Cerdes96

They never cease to amaze me with their lack of insight into their own
material. Go figure huh?
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From: Leo Bome <LeoBome@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:47:25 EST
To: mbrowne@warwick.net, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Heresies

I heartily agree with all you've said (I like HOME though) and like most
Procoholic's you have a great gift with words. Please contribute often. I
usually don't have much to say myself, but . . . "Ich bein ein Redhiller!"

Leonardo
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From: ProcolHrum <ProcolHrum@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:29:20 EST
To: cerdes@procolharum.com, yfriis@online.no, Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: StereoHomburg

<< And the befuddlement grew.............and
grew................Cerdes96

They never cease to amaze me with their lack of insight into their own
material. Go figure huh?

Oh yes! Strange isn't it. Almost as if they could never be bothered with
little details such as who controled tapes and copyrights etc.
In fact I have seen references in the past week alone to 2 instances of Mr.
Brooker being unable to recall at all how one of his songs went. (Middle
section of Dead man's Dream and the modulation in A Rum Tale....if memory
serves) Understandable lapses but sheet music or a quick listen to the album
usually come in handy. Of course, I feel fortunate when I remember my access
password. :-)
RB
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 18:56:07 EST
To: ProcolHrum@aol.com, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Diversionary tactics

<<
Oh yes! Strange isn't it. Almost as if they could never be bothered with
little details such as who controled tapes and copyrights etc.

Exactly. It's understandible that one may not recall
musical passages that are not often played, but there is just soooooooooo much
that is shrouded in mystery. It's always one thing or another. And I LOVE when
they answer one question with the answer that might belong with another
question. The ultimate diversion".............mental blocks are frequent."
cerdes96
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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:10:55 +0000
To: Procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Mental Blocks

In fact I have seen references in the past week alone to 2 instances of Mr.
Brooker being unable to recall at all how one of his songs went. (Middle
section of Dead man's Dream and the modulation in A Rum Tale...

Actually it was an edit in 'A Rum Tale', rather than amnesia: since GB was
playing solo piano he went straight into verse three without changing key
for the band break. It was in verse three that the words went (slightly)
wrong and the chords hesitated.

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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:15:30 EST
To: cerdes@procolharum.com, ProcolHrum@aol.com, Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Diversionary tactics

I think musicians and other creative artists are often befuddled by nature,
and too busy creating their art to think about practical matters - much to
their disservice as we know. Here's something relevant to this topic (I
think) that I posted on Al Kooper's AOL Board a few months ago. Someone had
linked AK to Linda McCartney, because he had a blond girlfriend named Linda in
the past - and then when that was cleared up several fans started badmouthing
Linda M. a bit.. I must admit I've done the same myself as per her
musicianship and lack of same, but I've recently realized that Linda was and
is an excellent partner and advocate for Paul, and probably a big reason he's
been so successful. I posted to this effect briefly, and AK responded as
below so I felt I needed to explain further :

Subject: Re: The Right Linda
Date: Sun, Dec 21, 1997 15:21 EST
From: Jem33
Message-id: <19971221202100.PAA17588@ladder01.news.aol.com

[JM]: perhaps one reason he's been so MUCH more successful than his
bandmates.<<
[Al Kooper]:personally, I think quality-wise & taste-wise, George has been
more better (All Things Must Pass ---------- Got Mind Made Up, Wilburys etc)
<<<

I'm not a big fan of Beatles' music, especially after the breakup, and wasn't
referring to my taste in Paul's music when I called him the most "successful."
I didn't even mean the fact that he's probably one of the wealthiest people in
the world. (Interestingly, I saw a recent interview with him on PBS where he
complained that he's Still being ripped off by Music Publishers - and I'm sure
he's absolutley Right, regardless of how well off he is!) By "success" I
meant that Paul seems to be living a very fulfilled life, and his wealth alone
wouldn't account for that - witness all the rich miserable people around us.
By all indications, he's enjoying a very loving, longterm relationship with
Linda, feels free to create the music he wishes to create, and has been a
prolific composer into middle age -
a rarity in pop music.. Lately he's branched out into Classical Symphonies,
which, again, aren't my cup of tea, but are admired by many intelligent and
musically sophisticated people..

I think his choice of spouse is one reason he's in this very enviable
position.
What first made me aware of this is a bio of the Rolling Stones that I read
years ago. My memory is hazy on the details, but I remember an incident where
Paul had just written a song and lent a tape of it to someone in the Stones
(Mick I think); he had been asking for it to be returned and kept getting put
off - until Linda intervened - going over to (probably) Mick's house,
Demanding that tape and not leaving until she got it! Later Paul was asked
why he put up with a "bitch" like Linda, and he said something to the effect
that she may be a bitch, but that she was the only woman he'd ever met who
Really cared about his interests and was willing to go to bat for him. I'm
paraphrasing - he said it so much better. He's also told the story of how he
was Despondent about the Beatles breaking up - and was on his way to becoming
a classical Depressive - not getting out of bed, etc, until Linda came up
with the idea of his starting his own band. And she came out on the road with
him (bringing the kids I believe), instead of sitting home watching soap
operas with her friends and fuming about all the women Paul must be schmoozing
with on the Road.. Also - again, I'm inferring from what I've read - she and
her father had good business savvy and helped extricate Paul from the
horrendous business deals his scumbag Limey managers had gotten him into <G.

I'm writing all this, not because I'm a big Paul McCartney fan, but because
I've been so saddened reading on these Message Boards about the shabby way
musicians have been treated by The Biz - especially Al and my Number Ones -
Procol Harum. I've been hoping someone would write a book about this -
advising new musicians about what precautions to take in avoiding all the
pitfalls and trying to receive the compensation that's due them - i.e. MOST of
the proceeds of their music - they being the CREATORS and all! Musicians are
often naive about business, and too busy making their music to take an
interest in it.. So they hire managers to handle it for them, and more often
then not, those managers turn out to be scumbags who rob the musicians Blind.
So if a musician is fortunate to have a spouse who's intelligent and ethical
enough to fulfill that role - so much the better. I think
Paul has been one of those few lucky musicians.<<<<

I guess y'all know whose Linda I wish had been more like Paul's in the late
'60's.

I do think there's some hope for musicians being more equitably treated by the
music biz in the future, now that the Internet is up and running. Perhaps
with direct marketing of music - with sound sample available, an advantage
over print ads and snailmailings - a lot of the parasitic memo-writers and
meeting-takers can be eliminated. But good managers will probably always be
necessary, and are hard to find.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:42:30 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: .........quite insane??

Jem,
                That was a thoughtful, sensitive post with some real truth to
it. What befuddles me is the entire Procol Harum way of doing things. I was
not there of course and can only surmise that there must have been myriad and
sundry underhanded-goings on, so I certainly see some of it. There is a
subtext to this entire matter of befuddlement. Then again, when I think of
some of the stuff that I have written and recorded right here at home, I am at
a loss to explain much about it. But that's more the exception than the rule.
Well, we love them anyway...............befuddlement and all      (VBG).
                                                                     cerdes96
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From: ProcolHrum <ProcolHrum@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:04:05 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Mental Blocks

<< Actually it was an edit in 'A Rum Tale', rather than amnesia: since GB was
playing solo piano he went straight into verse three without changing key
for the band break. It was in verse three that the words went (slightly)
wrong and the chords hesitated.

Thanks Roland, for clarifying that anecdote. Funny! The same very same thing
happened to me the last time I played that sucker!
RB
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From: Magnus Lundin <elp@algonet.se
To: Procol mailing list <Procol@Progrock.org
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:20:22 +0100
Subject: Procol Record

Could anybody kind here send a list of the songs featured on _Shine on_
_Brightly._

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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:48:22 +0000
To: Magnus Lundin <elp@algonet.se, Procol mailing list <Procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Tracklisting

Could anybody kind here send a list of the songs featured on _Shine on_
Brightly._

and press the button with 'recordings' written on it: that will take you to
full track-listings and words.

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From: "Samuel Cameron" <samcameron@lineone.net
To: <procol@progrock.org
Subject: HOME IS WHERE THE SUICIDE NOTE IS?
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:18:12 -0000

Hello,
So nobody can see the Lewis Carrol influence?
I must say I agree with most of that lengthy intro, from the person
who thinks HOme is a "lets all go and kill ourselves" album
(sorry i can't keep track of all these e-mails)
but I don't agree with that..
can you find any invocations to suicide on that that might worry the
kind of people who sue heavy metal groups for the loss of their kids..
the theme of the album is about facing up to the pain of losing close
persons and the invevitability of one's own death..
and the purpose of the record is cathartic to express these things..
ok the barnyard story ends on with "maybe death will be my cure" but its
sung
with an implied question mark in the voice and could be seen as a religious
thing
i.e i'll go back to god and end my suffering (viz. a 'natural' death)
and the last track is very deliberately your own choice which says "knew
i'd drown if
i went in"
now i won't go on as i can anticipate what some objector might say so i'll
see
if you say it..
Bye,
Sam

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:50:01 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Trower

<A HREF="http://www.inforamp.net/~suth/trower/tourpics.html"Robin Trower
Home Page: 1997 Robin Trower Tou...</A <--------------THE LINK

I've been meaning to send this out. This is a link to Scott
Sutherland's great Robin Trower page. The link will take you directly to
wonderful shots of RT taken in concert last year. The photos are top-notch
quality as is everything at Scott's site.Great looking and
reading...................have fun folks. CERDES
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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:32:35 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: "Home": Black Sabbath For Grad Students?

Sam,
          Nah, I think Jerry's "let's-all-go-kill-ourselves" synopsis of Home
was referring to nothing more than how stingingly bleak and depressing the
lyrics truly are. And although I agree with you that Home isn't at all
deserving of the write off it got in that particular post, I still feel that
it is...well...depressing and bleak! I think that any redemption or
resolution percieved by Reid's protagonist is far out weighed by the decay,
death, dissolution, and--uh--detachment that is otherwise at work in the songs
. And you know what? That's just okay with me, because I see these
songs--and KR's overall "concept" for the lyrics--as merely a series of smart
(or smartish) horror stories. Nothing more, but possibly less.
          I don't even believe that there's really any unifying theme, except
for an overall and rather painterly(meant positively) attempt at capturing the
horrific,and via an intentionally off kilter subjectivity to underscore it. On
that level it works just fine for me. One could ask for more(like unadorned
directness) but I ain't complaining; it works pretty smoothly, and on it's own
terms. Can these poetical sounding lyrics be plumbed for some deeper,more
coherent meaning than their surficial meaning ? ...ehhh, personally I doubt
it. Sam,et al this might be very risky to say, but seeing that I've been a
fan of this band--and this Reid guy in particular-- for many many years, I
feel the need to say this: some of Home's more provocative lyrics amount to
nothing more than meaningful sounding gibberish. The forceful rhyming scheme
lends a certain cogency;it helps along the impression that there's really more
going on in them than I believe really is the case. And that is to be admired!
It's surface clever, it's fun, and with the music to boot, makes for a pretty
solid,apocalyptic spook show. But it doesn't mean that Reid should be
revered as some kind of major--or even minor poet. Sometimes folks on these
posts seem to me to treat him (and the band) like some kind of Holy Sacrament.
They're a great rock band!
         We're forever speculating on the motives and meanings behind this
very enjoyable band. It's tempting to think that given the general tone of
the lyrics on Home, something mighty weird was a-goin on with Mr. Reid. Maybe,
but do you think that that bloated millionaire horror novelist Steven King
necessarily has something dire going on in his life when he sits down to write
his stuff? So what if maybe Reid was in some sort of free floating funk
during that period, what comes out on paper doesn't have to equate
proportionally to what one is mucking about with in real life. Have you ever
spun a purposely weird story, backed up a minute to study that particular
naked lunch, and found yourself ENJOYING the STRANGENESS that came out of you?
Delightfully asking"why and wherefore?"As for any intra or inter psychic
issues young (Lou) Reid might be grappling with as incidental to his obviously
strange turns of phrase, etc., well,psychoanalytic constructs are fun to apply
to hysterical--er---historical figures, but ever come across examples where
new and irrefutable information on the subject came to burst such a "loaded
bloated"--ahem-discourse. You then find yourself ENJOYING the STRANGENESS of
the disparate images.
         Sam, et al., the Home LP has been a fave of mine for 25+ years. I
feel I know this puppy very well. I used to think it was "profound" for some
years back then, but when that passed I was left with a still very enjoyable
set of songs, albeit,pointing nowhere but at themselves. And that's quite all
reet with me! Sorry gang about the length, I leave with this last departing
burp: I'm tempted to say Home is where PH achieved/created a rarified blue
eyed blues entity. The horror shtick (I don't mean that unkindly) is akin to
the obscured urgency underlying ,say, a great like Howling Wolf. Trower's
providing the Sumlin equivalent creepy pyrotechniques. Consider Howlin Wolf's
"Spoonful" as the tonal center and you might get where I'm going with this.
Ehhh, ferget it. It's late and I've lost the thread.
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:37:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Dennis Montgomery <Dennis.Montgomery@Ebay.Sun.COM
Reply-To: Dennis Montgomery <Dennis.Montgomery@Ebay.Sun.COM
Subject: Broken Barricades
To: procol@progrock.org

has Broken Barricades ever been released on cd? I borrowed the vinyl from
a friend several years ago (and unfortunately returned it :) and would
love to find it on cd...

Thanks!
Dennis

"Some people crave baseball -- I find this unfathomable -- but I can easily
understand why a person could get excited about playing a bassoon"...Zappa

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:10:54 EST
To: Dennis.Montgomery@Ebay.Sun.COM, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: Broken Barricades

<<
   has Broken Barricades ever been released on cd? I borrowed the vinyl from
   a friend several years ago (and unfortunately returned it :) and would
   love to find it on cd...

          Yes it was, in the mid-late 80's. Unfortunately, it has been
discontinued. Perhaps with all the re-issuing going on lately, it may turn up
again . Let's hope for the best.............CERDESr
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:08:40 +0100
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Barricades

"Broken Barricades" is/was available on Mobile fidelity sound lab (under
license from A&M), MFCD 846. My copy was made in Germany late 80's.

Sound is good, but the booklet is very shoddy, just a facsimile of the
original front cover on the front, and no more that a few (clever) words
written by John Mendelsohn about the group on the inside plus some
Mobile fidelity self advertisement.

Regards
Yan
--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:44:27 +0300 (GMT)
To: procol@progrock.org
From: marpe@brecha.com.uy (Marcelo Pereira)
Subject: Re: Barricades

"Broken Barricades" WAS available on Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab. I let it
pass and then it was unavailable. In those days, I was so excited about all
kind of old recordings reappearing in CD, that I really didn't think that
the laws of market would make them disappear again - a stupid mistake
indeed. Marcelo.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:42:56 EST
To: Bandura520@aol.com, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: HOME: A collection of feelings

In a message dated 98-03-23 01:32:49 EST, you write:
<< That's just okay with me, because I see these
songs--and KR's overall "concept" for the lyrics--as merely a series of smart
(or smartish) horror stories. Nothing more, but possibly less.

I do agree my friend. As DEDACTR once said. ..Keith's words
work best when they are non-utilitarian and serve no ultimate purpose other
than to relay a story or indicate an emotional state. Procol never really did
a concept album in the sense that Tull did Thick As A Brick or Passion Play
anyway. Keith seems to enter a certain mindset, as we all do from time to
time, and just wings it from there. There was never a true "concept" album
from PH in the strictest definition of that term. CERDES96
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:32:38 +0100
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
CC: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: HOME: A collection of feelings

CERDES96 wrote:

There was never a true "concept" album
from PH in the strictest definition of that term. CERDES96

Except side 2 of "Shine On Brightly", wouldn't you say?
(and however you turn it, "Home" still has a concept, all the way from
it's title through it's lyrics to it's soundscape. toss your dice and
let the trumpets blow!)

Yan
--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:03:20 EST
To: yfriis@online.no, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: What a Concept

<<
There was never a true "concept" album
from PH in the strictest definition of that term. CERDES96
Except side 2 of "Shine On Brightly", wouldn't you say?

I don't think so either. That was written piece by piece
over a period of time. As Matthew and Gary and Keith said, they didn't even
know where they were heading really. So "concept" from it's inception... I
don't believe so. As a final product, it appears to be conceptual in nature.
Tull's Passion Play and Thick As A Brick are truly concept albums in that
before a note or word was written, Ian Anderson had a total picture in mind.
Ph never really worked that way and The Worm and the Tree fails except in the
most simplistic terms possible. Make any sense? CERDES96
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:38:10 +0100
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
CC: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: What a Concept

CERDES96 wrote:

In a message dated 98-03-23 14:35:30 EST, you write:

<<
   There was never a true "concept" album
from PH in the strictest definition of that term.      CERDES96
Except side 2 of "Shine On Brightly", wouldn't you say?

                   I don't think so either. That was written piece by piece
over a period of time. As Matthew and Gary and Keith said, they didn't even
know where they were heading really. So "concept" from it's inception... I
don't believe so.

Concept is not a term made up by Ian Anderson. IOW, the definition of a
concept album is not "Thick As A Brick".
There are even writers who put their novels together piece by piece over
periods of time, not knowing where they are heading... until finally the
novel is finished.
Then the concept becomes visible. Not planned. Just there.

What is a concept album?
The Kinks' "Village Green"?
Zappa's "Freak Out"?
"Tommy"?

I know Ray Davies regarded "Village Green" as some sort of a concept
album. (Then "Face To Face" should be one too.) And I do not see any
difference between "Village Green" and Procol's "Home" in that respect.

The term concept is not really that interesting. But I would say it is
important to view albums like "Home" as not just a collection of songs.
They belong together, much more so than say the songs on "A Salty Dog".
We all know that. Or this concept-discussion would not have taken place.
Those songs have something in common. A dark undercurrent of doom and a
bright promise of salvation runs through the whole album. Song by song,
word by word.

And remember, the important thing is not what the author put into his
story, but what you got out of it. Never ask a poet to explain a poem!

--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:56:43 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: What a Concept

Hi Yan!
Please tell me where exactly you see "a bright promise of salvation''
runnning thru the songs ("song by song", I believe you stated). "Your Own
Choice"? Sam seems to think its a denouement of some kind. But if that's so
what enlightenment --or salvation--has the protaganist achieved? All this
"blood and pus" ,rotting corpses, a wrathful God, dying to a crowds applause,
not to mention a withering consumptive like Heroine-and then have the
protaganist(?) proclaim..."my old dog's a good old dog/My old man's a silly
old sod/The human face is a terrible place." Wow--it now all makes sense!!!
There's nothing really upbeat or even neatly tying up anything in that song,
to my ears. Instead,I see wistful resignation, retained bitterness, and a
couple of clunky rhyming images that stick out like a sore thumb. BUT I STILL
LIKE THIS AND ALL THE OTHER SONGS ON HOME!! Whaling Stories? That stirring
shalimar resolution IS about redemption, I'll give you that--but it is so in
keeping with the cinematic and literary style of the piece that it comes off
abstract. It's not even specifically directed to the protagonist, maybe
obliquely--that is--if he's found "death to be his cure." Whiskey Train? Well
there's redemption there, for sure, and it goes simply like this: "this is bad
for me and I'm not going to do it anymore." Maybe we all ought to look to
Whiskey Train rather than Your Own Choice for a hint of what Home "may be
about" I offer this: delerium tremors, whiskey fueled nightmares, benders,
pangs of remorse, and finally a drying out. Sorry, Yan. I think Home spins on
many killer "D"s. Among them: distress, destruction ,death, decay, and(double
uh)--detachment. I percieve any hints of salvation or redemption to be
strictly in lower case--Oleh
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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:21:41 +0000
To: Procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Gibberish ?

I've been a fan of this band--and this Reid guy in particular-- for many
many years, I
feel the need to say this: some of Home's more provocative lyrics amount to
nothing more than meaningful sounding gibberish.=20

So good to read ' =96 and this Reid guy in particular =96 ' ... well said!=
But
the word 'gibberish' is pretty strong: I'd be more inclined to agree that
he deals in meaningful-sounding *juxtapositions*. But that's what I so like
about KR's writing: we're not patronised, we're encouraged to draw our own
conclusions.=20

'But it doesn't mean that Reid should be revered as some kind of major--or
even minor poet.'=20

Certainly he doesn't need to be 'revered', but it seems to me equally
important that he should not be overlooked or undervalued. For the genre,
it's uncommonly resonant writing: and the best of it doesn't 'dry up' over
the years. This impinged on a friend and me very forcefully at the
Barbican/LSO rehearsals where we heard one section of 'Grand Hotel' repeated
over and over while some nice detail of orchestral balance was attended to:
the words (though by no means Keith's most interesting) are so strongly full
of images, so wrily playful, and so laden with their particular atmosphere,
that they truly did support repeated listening.

Then Yan added,=20
... remember, the important thing is not what the author put into his
story, but what you got out of it ...

with which I strongly agree, and to which I would add that there really does
seem to me to be a 'concept' behind most of Keith's writing: that he seems
to start from the clusters of unmoderated thoughts that we often experience
while dreaming, and uses his craft =96 paradoxically =96 to render that
lack-of-focus sharper, more communicable. And the resulting stuff is often
allusive enough to recreate itself in the listener's thoughts in many ways
over the years of listening familiarity.

The intricacy of Brooker/Fisher music seemed to support classic Reid words
wonderfully well. Only when he became the wordmonger for the more
down-to-earth music of Robin Trower's various bands did Keith really abandon
himself to the curtly telegraphic style that we saw surfacing in songs like
'The Final Thrust', and which pervaded 'The Prodigal Stranger'. In general
these later words have not been so well-received!

It would be fascinating to talk to some of the musicians to whom Keith
offered his words before he teamed up with Gary Brooker, and find out
reasons for the failure of those potential collaborations. Did the composers
sense that their own music would be overshadowed or compromised by contact
with the Reid-world of those early words?

Is there anyone out there who's looked into such matters? Come in, Frans
Steensma!

They're a great rock band!
Of course that's the *real* reason I stayed with them ...

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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:26:58 -0500
From: burnside <burnside@acc-net.com
To: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
CC: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: "Home": Black Sabbath For Grad Students?

Bandura520 wrote:

Sam,
           Nah, I think Jerry's "let's-all-go-kill-ourselves" synopsis of Home
was referring to nothing more than how stingingly bleak and depressing the
lyrics truly are. And although I agree with you that Home isn't at all
deserving of the write off it got in that particular post, I still feel that
it is...well...depressing and bleak! I think that any redemption or
resolution percieved by Reid's protagonist is far out weighed by the decay,
death, dissolution, and--uh--detachment that is otherwise at work in the songs
. And you know what? That's just okay with me, because I see these
songs--and KR's overall "concept" for the lyrics--as merely a series of smart
(or smartish) horror stories. Nothing more, but possibly less.
           I don't even believe that there's really any unifying theme, except
for an overall and rather painterly(meant positively) attempt at capturing the
horrific,and via an intentionally off kilter subjectivity to underscore it. On
that level it works just fine for me. One could ask for more(like unadorned
directness) but I ain't complaining; it works pretty smoothly, and on it's own
terms. Can these poetical sounding lyrics be plumbed for some deeper,more
coherent meaning than their surficial meaning ? ...ehhh, personally I doubt
it. Sam,et al this might be very risky to say, but seeing that I've been a
fan of this band--and this Reid guy in particular-- for many many years, I
feel the need to say this: some of Home's more provocative lyrics amount to
nothing more than meaningful sounding gibberish. The forceful rhyming scheme
lends a certain cogency;it helps along the impression that there's really more
going on in them than I believe really is the case. And that is to be admired!
It's surface clever, it's fun, and with the music to boot, makes for a pretty
solid,apocalyptic spook show. But it doesn't mean that Reid should be
revered as some kind of major--or even minor poet. Sometimes folks on these
posts seem to me to treat him (and the band) like some kind of Holy Sacrament.
They're a great rock band!
          We're forever speculating on the motives and meanings behind this
very enjoyable band. It's tempting to think that given the general tone of
the lyrics on Home, something mighty weird was a-goin on with Mr. Reid. Maybe,
but do you think that that bloated millionaire horror novelist Steven King
necessarily has something dire going on in his life when he sits down to write
his stuff? So what if maybe Reid was in some sort of free floating funk
during that period, what comes out on paper doesn't have to equate
proportionally to what one is mucking about with in real life. Have you ever
spun a purposely weird story, backed up a minute to study that particular
naked lunch, and found yourself ENJOYING the STRANGENESS that came out of you?
Delightfully asking"why and wherefore?"As for any intra or inter psychic
issues young (Lou) Reid might be grappling with as incidental to his obviously
strange turns of phrase, etc., well,psychoanalytic constructs are fun to apply
to hysterical--er---historical figures, but ever come across examples where
new and irrefutable information on the subject came to burst such a "loaded
bloated"--ahem-discourse. You then find yourself ENJOYING the STRANGENESS of
the disparate images.
          Sam, et al., the Home LP has been a fave of mine for 25+ years. I
feel I know this puppy very well. I used to think it was "profound" for some
years back then, but when that passed I was left with a still very enjoyable
set of songs, albeit,pointing nowhere but at themselves. And that's quite all
reet with me! Sorry gang about the length, I leave with this last departing
burp: I'm tempted to say Home is where PH achieved/created a rarified blue
eyed blues entity. The horror shtick (I don't mean that unkindly) is akin to
the obscured urgency underlying ,say, a great like Howling Wolf. Trower's
providing the Sumlin equivalent creepy pyrotechniques. Consider Howlin Wolf's
"Spoonful" as the tonal center and you might get where I'm going with this.
Ehhh, ferget it. It's late and I've lost the thread.
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I won't repeat Bandura's apology for the "Home" album. Let me just add,
that it's just plain fine music. This particular album saw me through
some rather bleak times in my life. It is dark, gloomy, etc., but
listen to the possibility of life at the end!

"Home" has some of my fave PH songs, not because of the subject, but
because of the arrangements and the true mature musicianship
demonstrated by each of the band members. It includes, in my opinion,
some of Gary's best piano playing, as well as some of Robin's best
guitar licks and fills. Some very fine background accompaniment on
Robin's part, also.

It may not be their "best" album (if there can truly be such a thing),
but it's sure hard to beat.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:25:34 EST
To: Dennis.Montgomery@Ebay.Sun.COM, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: Broken Barricades

<<
If a reissue doesn't come soon, I could get lucky in a used bin (that's how
I found _Home_...a gold master edition release for $5.99 :)

Dennis

What a concept!!!!!!!!!! :+)
Cerdes96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:26:26 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: conceptual claptrap

               Points are valid but Procol had "threads" running through
albums WE read the concepts into them Ask Keith..
               NO. Ian Anderson did not single handedly concoct the concept
album.
               Your choices are valid as concepts, though their individual
merits are questionable as far as I'm concerned..yes the sacred Tommy
included. I realized long ago that just because a larger percentage of people
buy something, it is not inherently great. Perhaps I just don't like any Who
music and I never did. Personal taste really. But to imbue something with the
term concept because of it's cover on the other hand,-------Salty Dog, Grand
Hotel etc........is invalid. Keith said it himself. NOT concept albums. Just
songs with a particular thread running through SOME of them. The public likes
identifiable packaging though. Who cares anyway..it's all good stuff.
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:35:05 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: perhaps uh.........

<< I think Home spins on
many killer "D"s. Among them: distress, destruction ,death, decay, and(double
uh)--detachment. I percieve any hints of salvation or redemption to be
strictly in lower case--Oleh
The "wistful resignation" of
Your Own Choice is exactly that to these ears. Your protagonist Oleh, after
surviving the DT's, revengeful obsession, depression, a possible wish to be
dead or at least be the center of attention in About To Die (lonliness?
isolation?), disgust at the corporate structure of Piggy Pig Pig, and the
futile detachment that stems from such overthought about a dying system would
lead many a mortal to the "who give a flying....f...k" attitude of Your Own
Choice. I still often think of Keith, sitting there with his bottle of white
wine, having one tremendous guffaw over all of these proceedings here. I know
that I would certainly be amused by all of this hoopla.
But it is sooooooo much fun afterall.......innit? CERDES96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:43:46 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: Gibberish ?

In a message dated 98-03-23 19:23:38 EST, you write: (Roland does)
<< Grand Hotel' repeated
over and over while some nice detail of orchestral balance was attended to:
the words (though by no means Keith's most interesting) are so strongly full
of images, so wrily playful, and so laden with their particular atmosphere,
that they truly did support repeated listening.

Yes. And have you ever heard Billy Joel's "I've Loved these
Days"? A complete rip off of Grand Hotel. Frighteningly so.......and the
music, while wonderful, is decidedly like GH in tone, structure and cadence.
And once again, not a word from Mr. Joel about the influence of PH, though in
BTP it was noted that he performed Salty Dog in concert at some point. I guess
that's as good a nod as any eh wot? A far as KR's recent words...........the
most recent song I have had exposure to was one of the featured songs on Felix
Caviliere of the Rascals last work. The words were non-descript at best, but
there were little Reidian tell tale signs. I will try to track down a copy of
it and pass it along. CERDES96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:23:02 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Beyond the Glorious Pale

To all and sundry.........welcome
Like an old Procol Harum song, Beyond the Pale just
keeps getting better and better. Hey.....call me kookie, but it's the first
place I visit in the morning, and is often the last place I look before I sign
off at night. Yes... I do have a life in between....:+) but it's such a joy to
watch BTP grow and flourish under the auspices of Jens and Roland. For anyone
who may not have had the distinct pleasure to visit one of the finest and most
labryinthtine web sites I have ever seen.............click on this old
"Prussian Blue" line right here for a direct link to Procol fantasyland. You
won't be disappointed.----------- <A HREF="http://www.procolharum.com/"
Beyond the Pale</A CERDES96
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From: Magnus Lundin <elp@algonet.se
To: Procol mailing list <Procol@Progrock.org
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:45:59 +0100
Subject: Shine on Brightly!

Now I finally have find a CD rerelease on Shine on Brightly! I haven't
received it yet, but it probably coming later this week.
The rerelease is an Digipack from Repetoire, hope the sounds is okey?

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:51:23 +0100
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: What a Concept

If I find the time, I will try to take you through my interpretation of
the "Home"-concept (ho ho). At the moment I am too busy at work, but I
promise you a guided tour in the near future.

Until then, let me just comment on one of your elaborated points:

Bandura520 wrote:

"Your Own
Choice"? Sam seems to think its a denouement of some kind. But if that's so
what enlightenment --or salvation--has the protaganist achieved? All this
"blood and pus" ,rotting corpses, a wrathful God, dying to a crowds applause,
not to mention a withering consumptive like Heroine-and then have the
protaganist(?) proclaim..."my old dog's a good old dog/My old man's a silly
old sod/The human face is a terrible place." Wow--it now all makes sense!!!
There's nothing really upbeat or even neatly tying up anything in that song,
to my ears. Instead,I see wistful resignation, retained bitterness, and a
couple of clunky rhyming images that stick out like a sore thumb.

Just listen to the tongue-in-cheek arrangement and the jolly way in
which the song is delivered. It contradicts the words completely. It's a
great chapter in the novel "Home".

love
Yan
--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:53:41 EST
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Great Page from Denmark!

I highly recommend you check out the page of photos and commentary by Axel and
Peer from Denmark, inspired by a PH gig at Tivoli Gardens in 1975:

Each photo is accompanied by a serious and a humorous caption. My favorite is
one of the former - with a photo of BJW with a typically intense expression
on his face; the caption says (paraphrasing) that the essence of PH - in
1975 and always - was the dynamic tension between BJ's drums, Gary's piano AND
"Matthew's unseen touch." It made me realize more fully that Matthew was
Always there with PH in spirit - inspiring CC's organ work of course, And
Gary's compositions. I think Gary knows how much he owes to MF, and that he
expressed this at Redhill, when he introduced MF by saying

In the context of Axel and Peer's insight, I now think Gary meant that
literally - that it was his way of thanking MF for being such an inspiration
to PH long after he left. Gary and Keith's high praise for MF in recent years
also reinforces this idea. All this gives me hope that Gary and Keith are
capable of understanding what they still owe to MF.

But I digressed a bit.. The photos on that Page are all excellent, as are all
the comments. Many thanks to Peer and Axel!!

Best, Joan :-)
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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:25:50 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Rest In Peace Thereafter

Procol Pals,
           Just a few last comments(yeah right) on the "Home" front and then I
promise to shutup for a long good while. Apologies to fellow fans with
marginal, or no interest in this discussion. Sorry for the boredom--and
eyestrain. Remember: If it doesn't fit then just,uh, quit.(ie. hit delete)!
           Please know that I am making no apology for Home. I think it is a
terrific album, and I don't feel any apology is in order. But I do still feel
it is primarily depressing and bleak.   Paul, it was once my favorite PH
album, it remains as one of my most favorite PH efforts(I don't haveONE
favorite album, regardless of artist). It may be depressing and bleak, but I
liken it to the kind of rarified strangeness one enjoys in films like
Polanski's "The Tenant", or Lynch's "Eraserhead", or EA Poe--or even EC comics
etc. etc.
           Roland: Yes, perhaps "gibberish" was not the best choice. I think
it crawled out of my fingers in my well intended attempt to demystify Reid.
And I tend to agree that his work had a unique resonance when PH were in their
prime.Much of it still holds up well, but I do think he's neither a poet nor a
perfect lyricist--yet very enjoyable all the same. And your appraisal of his
strengths was beautifully put! Cerdes' quote of DEDACTR's take on Reid's
worth is also right on the money for me.
           Cerdes: Yes, wistful resignation can certainly be a logical and
fitting outcome for the "protagonist" under those circumstances. But that's
precisely my point--Your Own Choice is not essentially an upbeat finale.(hope
I didn't misunderstand what you were getting at) What's more, Reid also seems
to me to be using part of that song to inventory "common" musical themes he
could have used, but avoided because they were possibly too mundane--ie, "my
old dog's a good old dog" "too many glasses and not enough time" "human face
is a terrible place" Perhaps even a broadside: "too many poets and not enough
rhyme." Now think of the images that sandwhich those asides...uh sorry, I
really don't see any clear resolution, salvation from, or even direct
reference to the distress and horrifics of the thrust of the album. Yan, it IS
a "jolly" musical accompaniment, I agree, but that only makes it more
strikingly detached and disthymic for moi.
          Yan: I'll take the ride with you pal! Believe me, any sweetness
and light you can throw on this bad boy of an album would be interesting to
consider, but I really don't think its there at all. I do believe Home can be
cathartic to a point via its muted and overt rumbling--the mid teen feller
that I was when I first heard it thought it fit in nicely with my own sturm
and drang. But I never recall feeling truly uplifted. Only that I had a
special pal in "Keats" Reid who also seemed to enjoy licking his wounds.
          Sam, you necessary irritant, hope you're having a good laugh,
friend.
                                                                        --Oleh
--
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:07:57 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Procol =Mc squared ...only on thursdays?

My dear friends all,
For myself, part of the great fascination with PH has
always been the paradoxical nature of the material. (ie: Your Own Choice).
There are so many "dysthemic" (PERFECT OLEH!!) themes within the stict
dogmatism of Procol Harum. Rigid and stoic it is; and yet, comical and joyous
while being non-simultaneous. There is an itra-thematic dissonance that flows
from the marriage of Brooker - Reid songs that is a rarity in music. Before I
confuse the matter further, it is afterall, wonderful music. MUSIC is the key
term here. We can put it in brackets, add exponents and co-efficients and
graph it if we so desire, and in the end, it is wonderful, vibrant, one of a
kind and always will be damn good rock music with Bach and his grandmother's
kitchen sink thrown in for good measure. INNIT? CERDES96
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From: Dave Lee <d.lee@kudos.co.uk
To: "'Procol@progrock.org'" <Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Home sweet Home
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:33:56 -0000

My only comment on Home is that on the original PH web page they used a
mini picture of the album cover for the HOME button. Clever, huh?

And the irony? Well, after surfing the web for all these years, it's the
only thing that has made me spontaneously burst out laughing. Bet you
never thought Home would that effect on anyone?

PS Please can we have it as the web home button again?!
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:44:19 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Just a nod

BJ Wilson (98-03-18 19:01:34)
There were drummers and there was BJ Wilson. What can I say? He was just
amazing.
davelee -------------------------------------------l
From the BTP Guestbook............Thanks Dave, you
certainly know how I feel about BJ. It's just so true. He was exceptional.
CERDES96
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:52:55 +0300 (GMT)
To: procol@progrock.org
From: marpe@brecha.com.uy (Marcelo Pereira)
Subject: Re: "Home": Black Sabbath For Grad Students?

Bandura's point about the 'rarified blue eyed blues entity', compared with
Howlin' Wolf/Sumlin, is brilliant! Probably that was a result of Trower's
'expanding' to fill the hole Fisher left. I think that sound would have
been impossible with MF, and it was lost when RT left, but what a sound it
was! Marcelo.

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:03:54 +0000
To: Dave Lee <d.lee@kudos.co.uk,
"'Procol@progrock.org'" <Procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Re: Home sweet button

On the original PH web page they used a mini picture of the album cover for
the HOME button ... Please can we have it as the web home button again?!

Glad you liked it! It went out with the remastering of the old website
pages: but since it's evidently gathered a fan-club of its own we should
consider restoring it one day :-)

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From: "Samuel Cameron" <samcameron@lineone.net
To: <PROCOL@PROGROCK.ORG
Subject: HAVING A WHALE OF A TIME ON MY WAY HOME
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:16:28 -0000

          25/3/98
          hello,
          oleh,cerdes 96 et al.
          a few thoughts on home:
          a bit of discussion about your own choice going on here
          one might say that the precocious and emotionally vulnerable
          child sometimes
          pretends to be stupid/banal as a defence mechanism
          and this is the beginning of a so stupid they're good/profound
          tradition in english lyrics such as to be found in depeche mode
          and new order (please don't send me an e-mail punch synth haters)
          elsewhere its a william blake-type 'holy fool' carry on that KR
          tends to (which is why some of you like some of van morrison
          rave on john donne)
          btw i thought redhill what an awful plastic place to hold this
          fest of the soul but later i find in a book on Yeats that he went
          there to look at Blake's papers
          part of the death thing on home is to do with the fact that the
          southend crew had got together and what bound them together was
          a family type thing from the loss/lack of a father at a young age
          (GB/BJW)
          KR seems to have been alienated from his folks and you could read
          'my old dogs a god old dog/my old man's a silly old sod' as I
          hate my father but I'm proud of having broken the shackles in my
          great achievement of writing (a salty) dog
          now before i put my couch away don't you think that Whaling
          Stories is the most problematic lyric
          you could say that as shy and defensive people the procolers were
          very traumatised that the grasping world of a mega hit record
          opened them up to and this peeps through the work (viz. the
          snippet of AWSOP in IN held) and isn't it strange that Whaling
          Stories opens with paling well (playing AWSOP or variants well?)
          then the number 16 (as in vestal virgins occurs)
          and rob the tower is a phonetic analogue of 'robin trower'
          so is sack the town and rob the trower a wish to cut free from
          the southend (the town) melange and let robin trower go because he
          was straining against the fabric of the band..
          sorry if i'm wasting your time ..as nobodys interested in my
          lewis carrol connection..read hunting of the snark..it won' take
          long...
          bye just off to write a 1,000 page history of the concept album
          (in the original german)
          Sam

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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:12:05 +0100
From: Jens Anders Ravnaas <jensan@online.no
To: Dave Lee <d.lee@kudos.co.uk
CC: "'Procol@progrock.org'" <Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Home sweet Home

My only comment on Home is that on the original PH web page they used a
mini picture of the album cover for the HOME button. Clever, huh?

And the irony? Well, after surfing the web for all these years, it's the
only thing that has made me spontaneously burst out laughing. Bet you
never thought Home would that effect on anyone?

I a m glad you liked the idea, and we will have your wish in mind. But remember that 'Home'
was released as 'Whoosh' in Sweden and this website is hosted on a Swedish server. (g)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jens Anders Ravnaas - Kristiansand - Norway

Life is like a beanstalk. Isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:26:14 +0300 (GMT)
To: procol@progrock.org
From: marpe@brecha.com.uy (Marcelo Pereira)
Subject: Double trouble

I've got a chance to buy Frankie Miller's Double Trouble LP, with BJ Wilson
on drums. Could anybody tell me if it's good stuff? Thanks. Marcelo

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:52:13 EST
To: marpe@brecha.com.uy, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: MIller/PH/BJ

<< I've got a chance to buy Frankie Miller's Double Trouble LP, with BJ Wilson
on drums. Could anybody tell me if it's good stuff? Thanks. Marcelo

Frankie Miller is a good blues singer. You can hear a sample of his work
along with PH as the backing band on the Over the Rainbow
album........Brickyard Blues is the featured Miller/PH track...........that's
all I know about Mr. Miller aside from the tales he told.......:+)CERDES96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:54:26 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: BJ/Bonham

In a message dated 98-03-26 15:17:18 EST, you write:<<
<< Wasn't Wilson asked to join the force of Led Zeppelin in the beginning?
Yes in 1968 Page asked BJ to join..............thank God he didn't.

Yep thats true!
I guess Led Zeppelin got a really good drummer anyway. --
Mvh *Magnus Lundin* --- *elp@algonet.se*

Actually I never cared for Bonham's drumming. Jack Bruce once
said "Great drum sound, but he can't keep time".All a matter of taste in'nit?
CERDES96
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:42:14 EST
To: marpe@brecha.com.uy, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Double trouble

I have a tape of the Miller/Wilson "Double Trouble" album, and yes I think
there's some good stuff on it, and BJ plays very well. It's soul-type music;
I haven't heard it in awhile but a memorable cut on there is "When Something
is Wrong with my Baby." I think BJ is better recorded on this album than he
was on most of the PH albums, more's the pity.

Best, Joan :-)
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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:09:42 +0300 (GMT)
To: procol@progrock.org
From: marpe@brecha.com.uy (Marcelo Pereira)
Subject: Re: BJ/Bonham

Leaving aside if the great late Bonzo could or couldn't keep time (and with
all respect to Jack Bruce, FANTASTIC musician, except for some out of time
'free-jazz' side) what has always MOVED me is BJ staying with his friends
and not complaining about the money and fame he could have gained with
Zeppelin. Marcelo.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:55:04 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: a Zep aside: "+)

In a message dated 98-03-27 15:51:23 EST, you write:elp writes:
<< Just listening to *When the Levee Breaks* from their 4 record.
What a sound!

Kudos to Mr. Page for that wonderful production. I must
confess to never caring for Zep until I started to play their songs in bar
bands. I LOVED playing Kashmir...........tremendous power! Cerdes96
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:11:49 EST
To: marpe@brecha.com.uy, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Black Sabbath for Grad Students!

I LOVE that "Black Sabbath for Grad Students" description, Bandura! I think
it could apply to PH's LIVE sound in general, not just HOME. Many people who
have only heard the albums don't know how HEAVY a sound PH had LIVE - they
sounded MUCH closer to Led Zep and Black Sabbath than to the Beatles - but of
course they had googles more Class than those 2 bands - hence the
appropriateness of that title.

As to KR - I think he's a GREAT poet - my favorite.. He's just not a great or
profound Thinker, IMO, that's all...

Bandura's point about the 'rarified blue eyed blues entity', compared with
Howlin' Wolf/Sumlin, is brilliant! Probably that was a result of Trower's
'expanding' to fill the hole Fisher left. I think that sound would have been
impossible with MF, and it was lost when RT left, but what a sound it was! <<

I too am a fan of Wolf/Sumlin and Trower's early blues playing. But I think
that great sound would Definitely have been possible with MF - and in fact was
possible; you can hear it on Wish Me Well and Long Gone Geek, but especially
on some of the unreleased LIVE performances - Going Down Slow (Easter Island
boot) - different from Wolf/Sumlin but just as great in some ways, especially
MF's Killer Hammond intro, and other organ licks throughout - if you take
your ears off RT's guitar and listen for them - and also - something I just
acquired - ALPHA - a Fantastic Blues Tune with great solos by Gary, Robin and
Matthew. Then of course there's Green Onions, a MF/Hammond/Blues tour-de-
force. I think MF is a Great blues player, as is GB - and I DON'T KNOW why
they didn't do any long slow sensual blues in their 90's incarnation.

Best, Joan :-)
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:33:29 EST
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Whoops - I meant Geoff!

I wrote:
and also - something I just acquired - ALPHA - a Fantastic Blues Tune with
great solos by Gary, Robin and Matthew. <<

I just realized by reading the "liner notes" to the above acquisition that it
was a 90's performance - Much to my Surprise!! - and that the great buzzing
blues guitar was Geoff Whitehorn, Not RT!! WoW! That's the best I've ever
heard GW Play - and it was better "Vintage RT- style blues" than on Someday
Blues, IMO! That Tone GW used was especially reminiscent of RT's on the first
PH album.

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Date: 27 Mar 1998 13:29:45 -0500
From: Wilson CTR Brown <Wilson.CTR.Brown@faa.dot.gov
To: marpe@brecha.com.uy (IPM Return requested),
Procol@progrock.org (IPM Return requested),
cerdes@procolharum.com (IPM Return requested)
Subject: Re: MIller/PH/BJ

     Frankie Miller's album was great. "Love is all Around" is a fine
     example of BJ's great work. I believe that KR managed Frankie for a
     while, and Chris C. was also involved. They had a bit of trouble
     keeping Frankie sober. Bob Seger acknowledged Frankie's influence in
     an interview. You will hear similarities. I somehow lent this album
     out and never got it back. If you love BJ (and don't we all) then by
     all means, snap it up!!

     Wilson
     PS: This is my first response to the site and chat group. You may
     have read some of my mail from the AOL site forwarded by JEM. You guys
     are great. I'm a drummer of many years, and BJ has been at the top of
     my influence list from day one.

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From: Magnus Lundin <elp@algonet.se
To: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com,
marpe@brecha.com.uy,
procol@progrock.org
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:10:29 +0100
Subject: Re: Black Sabbath for Grad Students!

Sorry for not understand anything, but what is "Black Sabbath for Grad
Students"?

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:49:17 EST
To: elp@algonet.se, Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Masters level in heaviness MSH.

<< Sorry for not understand anything, but what is "Black Sabbath for Grad
Students"?

Heavy stuff for people with smarts. You're one of
us.........guess you didn't have your coffee yet! :+) cerdes96
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From: MChass2967 <MChass2967@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:02:07 EST
To: Jem33@aol.com, cerdes@procolharum.com, ProcolHrum@aol.com, Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Diversionary tactics

Speaking of Paul and Linda McC., I guess that's as good an excuse as any to
pass along this PH sighting, from Paul's authorized (authorised?) biography,
on
Paul and Linda's first meeting:
-----------------------------------------------------
PAUL: ...It was the first evening any of us had ever heard a record called 'A
Whiter Shade of Pale' with words about feeling seasick. The lyrics were all
very strange and poetic and the theme was a famous Bach theme but we didn't
know that. We just thought, God, what an incredible record! It was sort of a
marker record. It was a benchmark. And we were all trying to guess who it was.
So we had to go to the booth and ask, 'What was that one you just played?'
and
he said, 'Oh yes, "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harum.' 'Procol what? Is it
Latin or something?' And there were rumours around about what that meant. So
all
the mystery of the evening.

LINDA:... I remember everybody at the table heard 'A Whiter Shade of Pale'
that
night for the first time and we all thought, Who is that? Stevie Winwood? We
all
said Stevie. The minute that record came out, you just knew you loved it....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No word as to whether or not it was playing in stereo...
Marvin
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:14:52 -0500
From: burnside <burnside@acc-net.com
To: Magnus Lundin <elp@algonet.se
CC: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com, marpe@brecha.com.uy, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Black Sabbath for Grad Students!

Sorry for not understand anything, but what is "Black Sabbath for Grad
Students"?

A metallurgical dissertation on "Iron Man", a botanical dissertation on
"Sweet Leaf", or an zoological dissertaion on "War Pigs".(?)

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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:32:47 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Black Sabbath for Grad Students!

Magnus,
To paraphrase Voltaire, "It's the blackest of all possible coffees." Or
as Robert Crumb once said--"if you don't know, don't mess with it!" Fellow
Procol fan, Magnus, don't sweat any of this. The Black Sabbath thing relates
to a discussion of the Home album. Just fergit about it, make yrself
welcome...and slither under.--Bandura520
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:07:14 EST
To: elp@algonet.se, marpe@brecha.com.uy, procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Re: Black Sabbath for Gr...

I wrote:
I LOVE that "Black Sabbath for Grad Students" description, [by] [by] Bandura!
<<
Magnus wrote:
Sorry for not understand anything, but what is "Black Sabbath for Grad
Students"? <<

Bandura used the above description to characterize the HOME album, I think
especially for the gothic sound and death related lyrics. But I liked the
description as a characterization of Procol Harum's sound in general, their
LIVE sound, that it.. I think PH has an undeserved reputation as a Beatle-
esque art-rock or prog-rock band, and Bandura's words are much more accurate
about the band's sound - Very macho and Heavy, but with more Class(ical
influence) and intelligence than other "heavy metal" bands. Matthew Fisher
has been quite vocal about the "prog-rock" mistake re PH, but ironically he
was part of the problem, in the Beatle-esque way he produced ASD. He was also
most of the reason that PH had all that Class and Intelligence, instead of
being an R&B band with strange lyrics, as originally envisioned by Gary and
Keith, a band that would've been relegated to the dustbin of history, imo,
faster than you could say "Paramounts."

Will this message appear twice like most/all of the others today? If so -
probably not my fault <G

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:36:27 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: The First Album-still sacred in stereo

In a message dated 98-03-28 22:19:39 EST, Bandura520 writes:
<< first PH album. I DO think
the stereo difference is a big reason to be excited. But at the same time
I'm
a little concerned by the prospect. Sorta like having a colorized version of
something you can only think about as black and white. Sure hope the stereo
"gloss" doesn't compromise the crisp urgency that I've come to associate the
feel of the first PH LP with.

The only difference on She Wandered through and
Conquistador in stereo is the panning of the instruments. The urgency seems to
be there still though the vocal on Conquist is poorly mixed. But She Wandered
through is pure bliss with piano and organ on opposite sides of the stereo.
They are not produced in the same stereo sense that we have come to know. It's
still the first album and I for one am as excited as I can be to get
this......Cerdes96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:47:20 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: uh oh...I don't like this

Please go to BTP for this update on the first album in stereo--------not
looking so good I'm afraid..............Click here for BTP--------
<A HREF="http://www.procolharum.com/west_fake.htm"west_fake</A
.............lets hope for the best as we know that several tracks DO exist in
REAL stereo at this very moment.
CERDES96
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From: "Samuel Cameron" <samcameron@lineone.net
To: "Magnus Lundin" <elp@algonet.se, "Jem33" <Jem33@aol.com,
<marpe@brecha.com.uy, <procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Black Sabbath for Grad Students!
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:36:24 +0100

----------
just popping in to say
at the risk of clapping furiously and not seeing the joke
that there are a lot of brethren out there who are not US
citizens (or UK even)
and given the non-uniformity of world record releases
(e.,g. procol's ninth is the only official ph release in poland)
there may be some
people who do not know that Black sabbath are a heavy metal band
apart from its original witchcraft meeting
because they may live where a BS record has never ever been released
yeah i know they could look it up on the internet..please no..not
Black Sabbath sites..
so what shalll we tell them 'paranoia' that is the keynote song ..
a few chords ..a ceaseless refrain of 'can you help me' droning monotonous
voices caused by living in the midlands
of england surrounded by endless traffic and the accent deemed to be the
most
unattractive in the country and all that heavy metal (in factories)
i know the term comes from william burroughs but genesis,aptness and
adoption are not the same thing..
just off to the doctor to see to my humorous tendon

Sam
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From: Biffyshrew <Biffyshrew@aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:06:03 EST
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: stereo/mono mix differences

The only difference on She Wandered through and
Conquistador in stereo is the panning of the instruments.

There are other differences. The familiar version of "She Wandered Through
The Garden Fence" has the tambourine playing through almost the entire song.
On the stereo mix, the tambourine disappears during the first half of each
verse and the instrumental breaks. And the stereo version of "Conquistador"
has a different, more aggressive organ part.

Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}----
...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:35:44 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: stereo/mono mix differences

In a message dated 98-03-29 13:06:19 EST, you write:
Biffyshrew writes:
There are other differences. The familiar version of "She Wandered Through
The Garden Fence" has the tambourine playing through almost the entire song.
On the stereo mix, the tambourine disappears during the first half of each
verse and the instrumental breaks. And the stereo version of "Conquistador"
has a different, more aggressive organ part.

All true Biffy. I was just talking about the sonics of it though.
As for that organ solo, there's actually a mistake in it. You can hear Matthew
fumble and his timing goes off. I for one would never let that stay on the
final release. Glad they ditched that solo.
CERDES96
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From: "Samuel Cameron" <samcameron@lineone.net
To: <PROCOL@PROGROCK.ORG
Subject: TRUMPET VOLUNTARY
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:47:30 +0100

          hello ,
          while you're pondering over whether litigation hovers around the
          shenanigans with the westside stereo mixes..
          here's some serendipitous meandering..
          for those interested in the sexual identity of the procol harum
          beast ..
          she wandered is based on trumpet voluntary....which crops up
          cited in magdalene in which a vocal trumpet voluntary occurs
          (viz. a trumpet part done on something else)..
          something told me that i was wrong to think Henry Purcell
          (surely the moving spirit of The Long Goodbye) wrote the first
          trumpet vol.
          and apparently it was Jeremiah Clarke
          an organist to boot
          who died before he wrote it
          according to the IBM world encyclopedia! (could be wrong there)
          in 1707
          anyway music dictionaries say he died over a doomed love
          affair..
          such being the origin of Quite Rightly So and the very much ness
          of Toujours L'Amour ..
          and if you understand just what i'm trying to say don't grin
          you'll give the game away..
          its all so simple really if you just look to your dover sole..
          bye
          Sam
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 17:12:14 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: hold the danish

Hey! Wher'es my Profit Role!!!! ? I paid in advance didn't
I? Hey....Waiter.......Heeeeeeeeey!!!! cerdes96
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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 23:17:19 +0100
To: <samcameron@lineone.net, <PROCOL@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: Bugle VOLUNTARY

trumpet voluntary....which crops up cited in magdalene in which a vocal
trumpet voluntary occurs (viz. a trumpet part done on something else)

The real joke is that you couldn't possibly play that tune on a bugle,
rhinestoned or otherwise.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:12:11 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Frequency modulators and bugles

In a message dated 98-03-29 17:17:04 EST, RClare writes:
<<
The real joke is that you couldn't possibly play that tune on a bugle,
rhinestoned or otherwise.

How about on a SYNTHESIZER????? UH OH.............I'd best run
for cover!!!!!!!!! Cerdes96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:27:38 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Alternate QRS

ALL and Sundry,
As I was watching the Beat Club synched video performance of Quite
Rightly So, (black and white), I noticed that BJ is mouthing the words to the
verse that Keith Reid said that he never wrote. Had Gary mumbled that new
words on the spot (impossible as it was dubbed IF memory serves). BJ would not
have been able to mimic the words to something he had never heard before. And
if it was live mic....STILL, BJ could not mouth words that he had not heard
yet. This makes me all the more suspect that the info that we get from the
oracle itself, is often erroneous. Of course they are forgiven but
criminy!!!!........it's enough to drive one totally daft!
Befuddled as usual...CERDES96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 07:54:42 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: Alternate QRS

In a message dated 98-03-30 03:55:21 EST, samcameron writes:<<
viz people's remarks on the box set stereo mixes...the beat club video
Brooker LOOKS
as if he is singing agreed words not doing a whimsical mental blocks are
frequent routine
...bye

Keith must have been "well oiled on white
wine" when he poo pooed the obvious variants as figments of our collective
imagination.
CERDES96
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From: "McDermott, Dick" <McDermottD@nabisco.com
To: "'PROCOL@PROGROCK.ORG'" <PROCOL@PROGROCK.ORG
Subject: FW: CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:15:40 -0500

----------
From:         McDermott, Dick
Sent:         Monday, March 30, 1998 2:04PM
To:   'PROCUL@PROGROCK.ORG'
Subject:      CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE

MY NAME IS DICK MCDERMOTT AND I LIVE IN THE CHICAGO, IL. AREA. U.S.A. I'VE
BEEN A PROCUL FAN SINCE 1973. I LOVE ALL THE NEWS AND COMMENTS AVAILABLE
ON THE INTERNET. I AM SOMEWHAT OF A NOVICE ON THE NET, SO PLEASE DON'T
HOLD THAT AGAINST ME.
       I HAVE TWO POINTS TO MAKE WHICH I'M SURE MIGHT CAUSE SOME DEBATE.
BUT HERE GOES......
       SINCE I WASN'T A FAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING(I WAS TOO YOUNG) I FIND
IT HARD TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE HERO WORSHIP THAT MATTHEW FISHER
RECEIVES. NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK HE IS A GREAT ORGAN PLAYER AND
THAT OBVIOUSLY HELPED DEFINE THE PROCUL SOUND BUT... HE DID LEAVE THE
BAND. GARY CARRIED ON . ROBIN LEFT THE BAND. GARY CARRIED ON. GARY WROTE
95% OF THE SONGS. HE SANG THEM. HE LED THE BAND. GARY PRETTY MUCH IS
PROCUL HARUM ALONG WITH KEITH. SURE I MISS B.J. MATTHEW IS RARELY POSITIVE
ABOUT THE BAND IN INTERVIEWS AND SEEMS TO SHOW A LACK OF INTEREST IN TUNES
THAT THE BAND RECORDED AFTER HE LEFT. HE RIPS THE PRODIGAL STRANGER, WHICH
MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. IT WAS A GREAT ALBUM AND HE MADE SEVERAL EXCELLENT
CONTRIBUTIONS. STILL SOUR GRAPES FROM THE WRITING CREDIT FROM AWSOP. GET
OVER IT! I CAME IN AT THE GRAND HOTEL PERIOD SO I SUPPOSE I LIKE THAT
VERSION OF THE BAND BEST. CHRIS COPPING WAS A SOLID MEMBER OF THE BAND AND
WE HEAR LITTLE ABOUT HIM. AWSOP WAS A GREAT SONG, BUT THERE'S ALOT MORE TO
PROCUL HARUM THAN ONE SONG AND ONE ORGAN SOLO.
       I ALSO THINK THAT THE REISSUES(WE NEED LIVE RECORDINGS) ARE GREAT
BUT HOW MANY DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF AWSOP DO WE NEED? I THINK WE SHOULD PUT
MORE ENERGY INTO GETTING SOME NEW PROCUL MUSIC OUT. THAT'S WHAT WOULD
REALLY BE EXCITING.
       THANKS FOR FOR BEING THERE ALL OF YOU PROCUL FANS.I LOOK FORWARD TO
HEARING FROM YOU. SHINE ON!!

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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:15:48 +0200
From: Yan Friis <yfriis@online.no
To: procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: FW: CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE

Now Dick. Before you get into any discussions, let's make one thing
straight: Their name is Procol Harum, not Procul Harum.

regards
Yan
--
****************************************************
yfriis@online.no (home) yan.friis@hm-media.no (office)
phone 22921582 (home) 22585611 (office)
****************************************************
"LOVE YOUR FATE"
(heia Lyn!)
****************************************************
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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:01:49 +0200
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Christina <setters@bitsmart.com
Subject: Re: FW: CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE

Now Dick. Before you get into any discussions, let's make one thing
straight: Their name is Procol Harum, not Procul Harum.

Yeap! And one more thing:
Please, please, please Dick; Don't write in ALL CAPITALS.....
...some of us might be old - but we're not that blind yet, eh!?! ;-)
Thanx in advance!

Now when we've gotten *that* straightened up - my immediate
reaction to your comments about Matthew Fisher is:
I kind of "divide" PH into two eras; _before_ and _after_ Matthew Fisher!
(or _with_ and _without_ if you'd prefer that definition)
PH without MF isn't *da same* to me - there's definitely *something
special* missing,
although Chris Copping, Pete Solley et all are indeed brilliant musicians.
I can't tell exactly *what* I miss - it's a feeling and it's hard to
describe in words,
but maybe words like 'genuine PH-sound', 'soul', 'nerve', 'the thrill', the
'depth'
gives you an idea on what I'm trying to describe - in short:
What get's under my skin isn't there - in the same way.....oh, well!
That's just my personal opinion...but I've got a feeling we'll soon read
more about this
interesting topic from Joan (Jem33)!;-)
*Hugs and Blessings*,
Christina

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Christina Hermansson, Sweden
URL: http://www.christina.nu/
Email: to@christina.nu
Or: setters@bitsmart.com

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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:54:13 -0500 (EST)
From: dave pettit <dhpett0@sac.uky.edu
To: "McDermott, Dick" <McDermottD@nabisco.com
cc: "'PROCOL@PROGROCK.ORG'" <PROCOL@progrock.org
Subject: Re: Credit where credit is due

My opinion is that Matthew Fisher absolutely MADE Procol Harum in the
early years, musically at least. The first two albums, and to a certain
extent the third, are full of his organ noodling, without which the music
became, in my opinion, fairly boring. I'm about to voice my opinion on
a subject, and I know many will disagree with me, but I don't think very
highly of Procol's Ninth or Something Magic, and really Exotic Birds and
Fruit doesn't do much for me. The first three albums are the only ones
brimming with originality and 'youthful creativity,' while those which
followed, while well-structured and solid, didn't have the creative juices
that the first three did. Perhaps I'm a little biased, but my favorite PH
songs were 'AWSOP,' 'Repent Walpurgis,' 'Quite Rightly So,' 'Autumn of My
Madness,' and 'Wreck of the Hesperus' BEFORE I knew that MF had anything
to do with them. His organ playing made the songs better, and his knack
for catchy and interesting riffs make PH, SOB, and Salty Dog interesting
to listen to, whereas the rest of the albums (except maybe Home) tend to
be less lively and more 'old-sounding.' These, of course, are just my
opinions... any compilation representing the 'Early Years' is a 'must-buy'
for me, whereas I could certainly do without 'The Chrysalis Years.'
Looking forward to more debate...

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:04:53 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: i just shake my head in dismay

Chris Copping is NOT..repeat NOT..........a brilliant
musician. Period.
Cerdes96
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:36:29 +0200
From: Jens Anders Ravnaas <jensan@online.no
To: Procol Newsgroup <procol@progrock.org
Subject: Procol Harum stereo fakes and more

Westside has now clarified the intriguing and dissapointing news that
the promishing stereo version of Procol Harum's first album were fake.
Read about this and some very interesting news about the upcoming
Westside Procol Harum releases expected later this year on todays update
of 'Beyond the Pale'. Go to the What's new section.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jens Anders Ravnaas - Kristiansand - Norway

Life is like a beanstalk. Isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 02:24:24 +0200
To: procol@progrock.org
From: Christina <setters@bitsmart.com
Subject: Re: i just shake my head in dismay

Chris Copping is NOT..repeat NOT..........a brilliant
musician. Period.
Cerdes96

Well, actually....as compared to *me*...he IS! <grin
Nighty-Night, All! ;-)
/Christina

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Christina Hermansson, Sweden
URL: http://www.christina.nu/
Email: to@christina.nu
Or: setters@bitsmart.com

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:45:52 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: up in smoke

In a message dated 98-03-30 19:22:37 EST, you write<<
Well, actually....as compared to *me*...he IS! <grin
Nighty-Night, All! ;-)
/Christina

I'm glad you found some humor in my rather terse response.....I
have not smoked in 2 days now........GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
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From: "Alick Leslie" <scotlime@email.msn.com
To: <Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Life after Matthew
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:55:20 +0100

Good discussions, with lots of opinion and info, is what these groups should
be all about. It's great to hear the differences in attitude about Procol.

I've been listening in for a while, but the post-MF put downs have inspired
a reply. Fine, the time up to ASD can be seen as a "Golden Age" for the
music, but surely the Grand Hotel - Exotic albums hit a high albeit of a
different sort, possibly more mainstream.

My wife, having only listened to the Procol albums in the last few years
(thus having no subjective history to worry about) rates GH and EB+F as the
two best. I wouldn't agree myself (I remember - just - SOB and still rate it
as tops), but maybe we are talking about a dynamic band hitting two creative
peaks with different sounds.

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:11:34 +0100
To: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com, Procol@progrock.org
From: Roland Clare <roland.clare@virgin.net
Subject: I just shake my head and tap my toes

These days I'm not sure quite how useful a word 'brilliant' is ... but in
1970 / 71 you'd certainly have heard me using it to describe the
rhythm-section on 'Still There'll be More', 'Piggy Pig Pig' and the
(rarely-mentioned!) 'Memorial Drive': and I feel that the energy and drive
of the said Copping ought to be recognised (as it was @ Redhill!).

It's while Chris was on bass that BJ blossomed into full octopus-hood, in my
view.

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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:10:49 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: I just shake my head and tap my toes

<< and I feel that the energy and drive
of the said Copping ought to be recognised (as it was @ Redhill!)
It's while Chris was on bass that BJ blossomed into full octopus-hood, in my
view.
RELIABLE and SPIRITED are more descriptive of the
good professor on both instruments. And yes, I do think that the first 4
tentacles grew during his tenure with Copping. CERDES96
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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:29:23 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Hey Kids! Win Swell Prizes!!

Hey You Beardsley Loving Boys and Girls!
Miffed because the awaited stereo version was panned and/or scammed?
Are the names Fisher, Copping, and Solley starting to sound like a law firm to
you? Are you...Home sick?? Well buckaroos, kick back, sup on and try to
solve the following Procol related ephemera. It's Spring...Get Stupid!!
1)An historically important American television series--"An American
Family"--presented a cinema verite styled portrayal of an actual dysfunctional
american family...falling apart before our very eyes in six or seven uneasy
installments. Young Lance Loud, mildly struggling with his burgeoning gay
identity, quits the family and is about to move to NYC's notorious Chelsea
Hotel. He is listening to a Procol Harum album. What is it? Bonus points:
What song is he listening to?
2) Epic novelist, James Michener, whose phone book sized novels are perfect
for the beach and are the literary equivalent of big hair, mentions Procol
Harum in one of his novels--and in a most clueless manner! Name the book!
Bonus points: produce the unintentionally funny quote, smarty pants!
3)What two academy award winning or nominated films featured Procol
references, One of the two (and it's a personal fave) even mentions Gary
Brooker! Bonus points if you can quote the Brooker reference!
4)(avert your eyes if the following R rated item offends,thee.) What is a
"salty dog" in sexual parlance(ewwww!). Speaking of eyes, what sci -fi flm
fave of KR, features a weird (suggested)eye plucking finale, with the lead in
line...."if your eyes offend thee..."
5) "Black Sabbath for Grad Students?" was meant to be "played" in the spirit
it was intended. Was it?

Okay pals, go at it!! Winners recieve a crate of blue-eyed dover soles, and
big fat cask of Amontillado!!! Good Luck
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:54:48 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: Re: Hey Kids! Win Swell Prizes!!

<< at song is he listening to?
2) Epic novelist, James Michener, whose phone book sized novels are perfect
for the beach and are the literary equivalent of big hair,

THATS IT! I spit up my coffee and fell "right outta my chair" on that
one.......Talk about entertainment!!! :+)
CERDES96
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:57:56 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: x-raise

<< Speaking of eyes, what sci -fi flm
fave of KR, features a weird (suggested)eye plucking finale, with the lead in
line...."if your eyes offend thee..."

The mighyt Ray Milland in The Man with the X-Ray Eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great flick too..................cerdes96
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From: Bandura520 <Bandura520@aol.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:57:56 EST
To: Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Tums Spelled Backwards

Friends!
The questions 1-4 on my recent post are legit. Please don't be misled by
my lame attempts at making hardy har har. Question 5 is optional and only
blue book essays will be accepted. Am still striving towards golden
shutuphood, but I'm so weak.---Oleh
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From: CERDES96 <cerdes@procolharum.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:34:01 EST
To: Procol@Progrock.org
Subject: go here

All and sundry,
                     For a captivating bit of reading please go to BTP April
First, lower HTML or click on this to be directly transported to some marble-
staircased plain.
           <A HREF="http://www.walrus.dircon.co.uk/"friedo</A
<----------------Click here and PLEASE read the ENTIRE article.
                                              cerdes96
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From: Jem33 <Jem33@aol.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:29:15 EST
To: roland.clare@virgin.net, cerdes@procolharum.com, Procol@progrock.org
Subject: Re: I just shake my head and...

Roland wrote that :
CERDES96 wrote: Chris Copping is NOT..repeat NOT..........a brilliant
musician <<

Maybe what CERDES meant was that Chris was Not repeat NOT a brilliant
*Organist*! <G..

On the radio in Denmark in 1992, Gary eloquently described Matthew as the
originator of the PH organ sound, saying that all subsequent organists in PH
(i.e. Chris and I guess Pete Solley when he wasn't synthetic <g) played the
organ the way Matthew "invented" it - because "that's the way you Play the
organ in PH" [quotes approximate].. . Check out that great statement of
Gary's at -- where else? -- BtP. In another quote - also at BtP - Gary added
that although other organists sometimes played the same notes as MF, they
lacked MF's special "feel" or "touch" and those notes just didn't sound the
same. I couldn't agree more, of course..

Then Roland wrote:
These days I'm not sure quite how useful a word 'brilliant' is ... but in
1970 / 71 you'd certainly have heard me using it to describe the rhythm-
section on 'Still There'll be More', 'Piggy Pig Pig' and the (rarely-
mentioned!) 'Memorial Drive': and I feel that the energy and drive of the said
Copping ought to be recognised (as it was @ Redhill!). It's while Chris was on
bass that BJ blossomed into full octopus-hood, in my view. <<

I never attributed that to Chris before, but you could be right, Roland.. Bass
players are my least noticed musicians in PH, and I should listen more
carefully for them, especially Chris vs. the others.. YES - the rhythm section
of PH circa 1970-71 was HOT!!! -- I can attest to that from seeing them LIVE.
. I think it's possible that BJ really DID come into his own beginning with
HOME - perhaps to compensate for MF's leaving - and not just because - as I
originally surmised - he was better recorded on that and most of the
subsequent albums than he had been on the first 3.

I do agree with the person (sorry can't remember whom at the moment) who
posted that the post-MF PH was also a great, although different, band, and I
think BJ was a HUGE part of the reason for that -- in addition to the fact
that Fisher was still there in spirit and influence - especially on Chris's
organ playing, and - as BJ's friend Kenny White eloquently said in Roland's
interview - because Matthew initially "woke up something in Gary" by
influencing him in the Classical direction when they first joined forces.
Prior to that time, Gary was mainly an R&B player and composer whose early
piano studies were in Pop not Classical.. But once awakened by Matthew's great
compositions on the first 3 albums (including the organ parts on the songs not
officially credited to him).. Yes, Gary did compose some beautiful material
throughout PH's Vintage career - even a few on Ninth and Something Magic.
<G..
But by the time of Prodigal, sad to say, Gary seemed "all written out." He
only composed ONE of those tunes by himself (Holding On) and on about half the
songs he collaborated with a composer Outside the band - something he NEVER
did before on a PH project..And Matthew's heart wasn't in the composing
either, though many of his organ lines on the album were beautiful. He's
still extremely and justifiably demoralized about the AWSoP credits - the
reason he left PH in the first place. .If that injustice were to be corrected
- and I don't see why it shouldn't be -- that could be our best bet for seeing
the creation of some truly transcendent new PH music -- a re-awakening of the
wonderful Brooker/Fisher composing team! . Until that time, the best we can
hope for as far as exciting new PH developments are concerned, IMO, is the
release of the Vintage LIVE material - no small matter, that!

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